Well Cowman and the like

[wd40]

Put a ring in you're nose for life. All you're retoric you going to get just what you deserve. Three packing plants that will controll 90% of the slaughter capacity, using RFID technology to collect and record the carcass data from you're cows so when they sit their fat asses down in Heartland Livestock auction you'll get paid just what you think their worth not their real value.

[kato]

Pardon me?

[wd40]

We are rapidly losing the opportunity to take back some control of our desytiny. The only way to stop that is to put your money where you mouth is. WE have made a significcant investment into a producer owned packing plant the only hope. And most of you are content to twiddle your thumbs, expound platitudes, and whine. It's time to put up or ....
The 4 Canadian plants are in a race to ramp up capacity and we sit buy and watch and argue, shoot our fellow producers when they are wonded and thus shoot ourselves in the foot.

[cowman]

Who was I shooting in the foot? If I ask why we should take a leap of faith and lay out money for a plant, how is that a bad thing?
Is it so bad that I report that my own experiences with Nilson Bros have been positive? Is it required here that I bash them or something? I don't believe I ripped anyone for relaying their own bad experiences with Nilsons?
When did I ever state I was against a producer owned packing plant? I might question how it will work, how it will be paid for etc. Is that a dumb thing to do? How does anyone make an informed decision about anything if you don't have the facts and figures?
I believe rpkaiser answered a lot of my questions and I am leaning strongly that way. On a personal level, it doesn't matter one iota whether they build this plant or not, but I don't want to see this industry crash and burn, even though I will not be a part of it! I am often very disgusted with how our government has destroyed the rural ag community by ignorant policy! I don't blame the pirates for being pirates...I blame the government for letting them **** and pillage at will!

[wd40]

That's the problem - everybody in the country has alot to say, but no action. "If it is to be it's up to me". How quickly can we spend a $1000 and get nothing in return, or $500 and think nothing of it. But we won't give one of these plant initiatives the same investment on the hope that maybe someone can make a difference. One of the cow plant groups is looking for $5000. You give them a check for $500 and the $4500 when you bring your cows. You can get involved with NWCA for $1000. Not much of a gamble. But we sence no urgency as producers while the 4 packers scramble to increase capacity which will shove us quietly into surfdom. Shame on us for doing nothing to stop it.

[kato]

Are you so sure we haven't invested in plants?

We have money in one in Manitoba.. Rancher's Choice. We got a newsletter from them yesterday that was very encouraging. Things are going forward very nicely. I'll report back when I get more news.

As for Cowman's input, I find it very valuable. His questions are the ones everyone should be asking before running off and investing millions of dollars. If you don't do your homework first, you can get into serious trouble pretty fast. It's too much money to just leap in headfirst without knowing your stuff.

[oxbow]

I participate in USPB and am quite pleased with the returns - beats the hell out of anything on the ranch.

Additionally, the exchange at finnishing is a terrible time for an adversarial relationship. When ol sneaky packer buyer is trtyingto buy them as cheap as he can, and cowboy bill is trying to get all he can, that is an adversarial relationship.

Packing space is the best bargain you can find if you want to expand your ranch.

[cowman]

oxbow: While not disputing your claim that participating in a producer owned packing plant might be very good, I would point out that not all these ventures succeed?
In fact wasn't there two of these ventures that went down hard in Kansas in the last year?
Whenever anyone takes a risk in any business venture I believe they should do their homework and have a reasonable hope it will succeed? Isn't that just good business?
Right now, the way the laws and rules are set up here, I suspect a Canadian plant will likely be ate up as soon as the border opens! They will have a very tough time surviving for the same reason the Canadian plants did 15 years ago? Cargill/IBP and the plants across the line will make it very difficult to operate. IBP(Canada) is expanding, with Cargill probably following suite shortly. The idea of a cow plant is attractive up here right now as we only have one cow plant for all of western Canada, but what happens when the border opens to cows?
The system we had in place pre-BSE worked very well for a reason? It made the most sense from a financial perspective? If the border ever returns to normal I suspect we would move back to that system?

[whiteface]

Cowman, I seriously think you should semi-retire as an accountant. Very few people consider black and red, bottom lines and exactly how things are going to pan out financially like you do. I personally am not as good with numbers as I would like to be and sure hope you'll be around to keep me in check after you sell your cows.
wd40, without getting into a really long winded "talk and no action" discussion, I really do sense your frustration with why aren't there new plants already running, but there really are a lot of things to consider in building and getting them up and running which is why this site is very good. I have had my mind changed or at the very least, taken a few good long hard looks at some other people's views when their very good points were brought up. I for one am very concerned for the longevity of the new plants when Canada's numbers go down again and especially if the U.S. border opens up any time say in the next year, how is America's herd size? Maybe oxbow could help me with that one? Will the U.S. be comeing here in droves to take our cattle for their plants and to refurbish their herds? With the prices they've been enjoying, the smart ones have cleaned out there herds and will be looking to replace them with "cheap Canadian cattle." I think it's the opposite of what U.S. thinks, instead of us "dumping," the difference in our currancy encourages them to no end to come for our cattle and compete against those new packers, driving the price up to where we as producers enjoy it but if there is no money for the other sectors in the industy, it's like Jenga, we all need each other to ***tion properly. I think with new plants, I'd like to see some regulation of how all our meat is sold in boxes, to Japan, U.S. and not allow any cross-border trade. Keep the cattle and the jobs here in Canada and yes I know I'm walking a line where I'll get labelled a "protectionist" Canadian ( not too often a Canadian gets labelled protectionist ) but yes, millions of dollars to "bail us out" with new plants has to be sustainable long term. How do you propose we are long term sustainable when we have an artificial "backlog" of cattle to remove now? Will our cow herd simply stay this high with more packing capacity? Anyway, I wasn't going to make this long winded, so much for my credibility, but thanks all for reading. Just some of the questions that roll around in my head. Have a good day all!

[cakadu]

Whiteface, those are good questions to be asking yourself and those that are proposing plants. Any business should have short, medium and long term goals. I'm not convinced that the border will open any time soon, especially if Kerry gets in.


To me, the most critical component of this is finding new markets before things get put into motion. Building it and waiting for them to come hasn't really gotten us where we've wanted to go and is part of a production focus versus a market driving or consumer focus.

Building a plant for cows will not necessarily make the cows worth any more money - the potential will be there to sell them. If the border does by some small miracle open, I wonder how long it will take for things to go back to the status quo?

For some these events seem to have changed the way they look at things and it is likely a change for the better because they are all looking at ways that will help them to capture more of the value in what they are producing. For others, it will be like the other stalwart institutions we have in the ag industry i.e. CWB, where they will rely on the tried and (maybe not so) true, but it is what they know so they will go with it.

The only thing that I do know for sure is that May 20, 2003 changed the way we look at our agricultural practices, organizations and economics.

[oxbow]

Cowman, yes there have been failures, but some business plans are obviously flawed. Future beef, which is now Creekstone got too beholding to Safeway - bad plan. Good management and good cattle have a reasonable chance of prosperity.

I say for a plant to open against the majors it needs to be producer owned and supplied - otherwise the majors will bid up the area with the upstart and subsidize with other plants.

Whoever had the idea to open a cow plant is looking at some real opportunity. A shorrt feeding period before slaughter really improves cow value.

[oxbow]

US cow herd is smallest in 40 years, but genetics have allowed production to expand. 02 was record production year.

[cswilson]

There is a good article in'Stockman Grass Farmer' this month on why buying co-ops succeed and marketing co-ops often fail.

[grassfarmer]

cs, guess I should have read this thread before posting a new one.

[cswilson]

wellgrassfarmer think we'll forgive you-isn't the 'grassfarmer' a great magazine-i quit lending mine out never got them back.