cakadau - ua love the CCIA

[wd40]

that's not all. The CCIA is now prepairing to facilitate inventory tracking of your cattle, production data and carcass data. Maybe ya should just sign you deeds over to CFIA and Internal Revinue.

[cowman]

wd40: I never heard about any of this. I thought the RFID tags just replaced the old bar code tags, for the same purpose? I suppose the bar code tags could have been used for the same purpose, but I don't think they were? Or am I wrong?

[wd40]

Your right, the initial mandate was only for National Security. However the CCIA is now pushing the evelope and trying to expand their monopoly to include your inventory numbers, production data along the life cycle of the calf and carcass data (which Cargil already collects for Western for their data base). Tehy are an "ambitious" bunch.

[cakadu]

Wouldn't having some of that tracking data - if it is given back to the producer - be of benefit? One of the things that I have heard for a number of years is that nothing is given back to the producer in terms of how his/her cattle did when all was said and done. If you're getting information on how well your animals graded wouldn't that help you better adjust so that you can collect more in the way of margin and/or premium?

[grassfarmer]

I don't see this being the big sinister threat it is portrayed as here.The new tag will be applied by the primary producer and there is no hint that you have to tie that into the dams identity so packers will not be able to identify your best and worst cows. They will know who bred the calves and how they compare to other producers - but isn't that what "reputation calves" is all about in the auction ring? I have no problem with Government knowing the cattle numbers I have at any one time - it allows them to be better informed if they ever do decide to introduce aid packages etc into the industry if the need arises. The only problem I see with the new tags is that the packers are reluctant to share the carcase data with primary producers - as I understand it the Angus society has reached an agreement with Cargill that they will divulge the information to the society but not to individual producers. We need to lobby to ensure that this information is automatically returned to primary producers or we will not tag the animals with these new (and more expensive) tags.

[cakadu]

That is probably the better way to go, grassfarmer - to get the information that you as a producer need in order to make the necessary adjustments to stay on top of things.

Over the years I have heard various producers saying that they get no signals back from the processors about how their animals fared in terms of grading etc.

I would still like to see producers getting more of the value of what they are producing, so might this be a step in that direction?

Change is hard and to keep records and have all of these new things being introduced will take some time to accept. You don't necessarily have to like it, but you would probably be better off if you accept and deal with them and integrate them into your practices as best you can.

We are moving into a new era in terms of agricultural production and there are basically 3 choices that you have - embrace the changes and go with them, wait and see how things turn out and then make the changes, or fight them all the way and be left behind. Ultimately the choice is the individuals to make.

[jensend]

didn't one of the cattlemen issues from last winter or so say the packers regarded all the carcass information as their property? from what i remember of the article they might stand in the way of producers using information from their own animals.

[cakadu]

How could you put pressure on the packers to release the information? Would this not be one of the duties of the CCA/ABP in order to assist producers in making decisions and choices?

Wouldn't it be to everyone's benefit to have the information filtering back through the chain? The packers would get animals suited more to their needs and most importantly there would be consistency, feedlots would benefit as sorting might become easier, etc.

It seems to me that we are seeing more and more instances of how and where these producer organizations could be taken to task and given guidance in what you as producers need. How far away from reality is that? Could it be achieved if you had new representation in these organizations?

[rusty1]

The reality is that any producer production data tracking or storage should be open to the Free Enterprise world, to build a service industry to help producers in collection and benchmarking.
Can you imagine the bureaucratic ship it will take to manage the process so we can get production data back? Can you imagine the cost when you have crown corporation being the exclusive supplier of the service and tools.
This process needs private enterprise competing for market space.
Can you imagine the packers using your carcass data for you’re benefit? Not likely.

[kato]

They have to report those numbers to the CCIA when they kill the cattle. That's the time to get the information.

I would think it would be in their best interests to have the primary producers know how their cattle turned out, so they can improve the cattle they produce. Wouldn't that make everyone more money?

They just don't want to pay someone to do the paperwork. That's what it always comes down to. They did report results with the old blue tag program. What ever happened with that? Does anyone know?

[wd40]

kato - you must have Hostage Syndrom. Fell in love with your hostage takers. The packers don't want you to know the real value of you're cattle. That's NOT in their best interest.

[rusty1]

cakadau - the only way to put pressure on the packers to be more loving to producers is to buy shares and promote a producer packer to get them going on fat cattle. They don't care about cow kill plants, infact their sitting back and waiting till they can pick them off one at a time.
CCA & ABP are in bed with the packers and live under their armpits.

[cowman]

Now I remember when they first starting proposing the mandatory ID tags, the CFIA stating that ALL info was confidential and would never be released to anyone! It was simply a traceback system for food safety. When some people brought up the question of packers getting names and using it for their own ends, we were assured this would never happen!
Grassfarmer: I don't think you have an option to not using the RFID tags? Come Jan. 1,2005 it becomes the law, doesn't it? And if you try to sell cattle without it you will be barred from selling and fined? I suppose if there was wide spread "civil disobedience" to this law they might have to change it, but you and I both know that isn't going to happen?

[cakadu]

Cowman has stated in other threads that the turnout on certain issues regarding the ABP has been in the neighborhood of 12%. What would happen if 80% of producers turned out and made their wishes known? Would it be possible to change the direction on some things and put people in place who are more amenable to carrying out producer wishes?

These BIG-C meetings seem to have rallied plenty of people together - what about rallying similar numbers to some existing events so that you don't have to go about re-inventing the wheel?

If in fact apathy has brought you to this point, then wouldn't action help to turn things around? Seems to me you have some momentum going here - try and build on it.

[jensend]

cakadau i'm not advocating apathy but it may not be that clear. it becomes apparent over time that abp is more influenced by the alberta government than big-c so who will the govt. want to talk to? put in a renegade board of directors at abp and the packers and feedlot operators will put together another group or organization formally or otherwise and will continue to have the ear of govt. as far as alberta is concerned abp is the cattle org. and the feds listen to cca. i was at the big-c meeting last night in moose jaw and walked out angry because the wrong guys have the right ideas as far as govt. is concerned so it's better to go with the right guys. the two conservative mp's who were there were a waste of time. cfia is owned and operated by washington. big-c has some good concepts and given time and goodwill they would be a big part of the solution to the whole structure of the cattle industry but they will have a tough time getting in to see the people who can make things happen. hopefully the momentum will build.