What are the ramifications?

[cowman]

I have a hard time believing anyone would think a "coverup" is a good idea. If we have the bloody disease then lets find out just how bad it is? Isn't that the reason for the testing? It's called food safety?
I wonder where you get the idea people would be down on the neighbor because he has the next positive? Would we be down on him if he got AIDS from a blood transfusion? Not his fault? How do you know you don't have that positive in your herd right now? Letting the coyotes eat her doesn't alter the fact that she might have had BSE!
The general presumption is that America is fudging the testing, but is that true? I don't know. The American consumer seems to have confidence in the USDA? Making statements that all Canadian cattle producers should haul their old cows out to the bush, doesn't exactly inspire confidence in our product or confidence in our producers integrity? Just because we have an idiot in Edmonton saying we should shoot, shovel and shutup, doesn't mean we have to take it to heart? That statement by Ralph was one of the dumbest things he's ever done?

[farmers_son]

Cowman: Shipping downers and sending in heads of dead animals so they can be tested for BSE is not normal practice for beef producers. It is like sharing intravenous needles and engaging in unprotected sex. It is irresponsible and reckless. Many cases of AIDS are preventable and likewise potential BSE positives can be prevented if producers avoid high risk behaviours involving sending down and dead cows.

It was dumb of Ralph to publicly say shoot shovel and shut up. It did not need to be said. In all honesty, given what we know now, given that the border looks like it will still be closed in the beginning of 2005, given all the pain and suffering, wouldn’t it have better if the test from Peaster’s cow had quietly gone into the garbage can and got lost or else was reevaluated as negative like our American friends do? Certainly it should have never been sent to Britain but handled internally within our own country. After all it was rendered anyway, no one would have been hurt. Or how about this, wouldn’t it have been a better if Peaster had just hauled his cow to the bush? We don’t need to keep on making the same mistakes over and over again. It is time we learned from our mistakes and moved on.

Certainly we do not want our politicians telling us producers to haul our dead and down cows to the bush instead of test them. It is something we producers should know without being told.

Bottom line the purpose of producers discussing issues such as this is we are all searching for solutions for the BSE crisis, most of which involve getting the border open. I am certain, no matter what the OIE or CFIA or whoever says, that if we find one more Canadian positive the border will not open for a very long time. We need the next BSE positive, and there will be another, to be an American cow. That said it then falls to Canadian producers to do what they can to make sure they don’t send in the next BSE positive that will drive the final nail in the coffin of the Canadian beef industry. Maybe Ralph’s 3S speech was one of the dumbest things he ever did but if a producer sends in a dead head or downer cow and it is tested positive it will be one the dumbest things that producer ever did. Take your sick, dying, down and dead cows to the bush.

[cswilson]

Farmer's_son-how can you be sure the U.S. hasn't tested any downers that's just finger pointing in my opinion-what will happen with triple S is we will just get the feds involved far more than we want-with RFID tags etc they can make us account for all our inventory. Do you want to be 'forced' into producing the head of every cow you lose. I'm sure you've applied for some BSE compensation-if you don't agree with the government on testing-send your money back. When Bangs was bad-a far more infectious disease- we all had to test our cowherds(at the end of a lariet in lots of cases) a few times. We had close neighbors that had their cowherds wiped out-did we shun them- not hardly.You say it's not normal practice to test for BSE-well duh-nothing has been normal since 5/20.WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!!!!!

[cakadu]

Wouldn't it be better to know that it didn't have something i.e. BSE than to wonder? What happens if someone sees you haul that dead out and reports it?

I agree that at one time or another we have all had a dead animal tested and all the vets could do is come back and tell you what they didn't have, which is better than just ignoring it.

Hindsight is always a wonderful thing and I'm sure if things could be changed, they would never have done what they did. Knowing what we do now, it is tempting to not test, but it seems to me that being open and forthright is the best way to be.

[cswilson]

Well Shouda Couda Wouda always does work. No doubt Peaster shouldn't of sold that cow but he did and were left to get out of the ensuing mess. Not testing sure isn't going to do it-if we really want to slow slaughter rate down we'll just miss meeting our quota and have to test many more cattle.

[kato]

Not to test, and have a bigger problem develop down the road is a much bigger nightmare than we are living through now. Do we want to be like the producers in England who will have a cloud over their heads for years while their consumers wait for the infamous 'incubation period' for CJD to pass? I think not.

The reason for testing is to set an idea of the level of infection for our national herd. It doesn't matter if they are alive or dead, if they were born before the feed ban, then they qualify to be tested.

We all agree that our level of BSE is microscopic in proportion, and the sooner we PROVE it, the quicker we can get over this nonsense.

[cowman]

Whether you believe the "science" of BSE or not the important thing to remember here is we do have a responsibility to the consumer? If this disease can cause Jakob Creutzfeld disease then we need to do everything in our power to insure our product is safe?
How would you feel if you sold the animal that killed somebody? Personally I'd rather lose everything I have than be responsible for someones death, through greed!
If you want to raise food you do have a responsibility and obligations to the people you sell it too? An obligation that you are selling them a safe product? And until we get some kind of an idea of just how bad this thing is and how widespread, then we need to do the testing!
If we follow the old three S approach how much better are we than the drug dealer...dealing death out on the street corner! I know that sounds dramatic, but the fact is without the testing we really don't know what we are selling?

[farmers_son]

I think I have said all I can on the issue. I am not so simple minded that I don’t know this isn’t politically correct and will close with this. The industry tells producers they need to test X number of cattle so the border will open. This is the same industry that told us we had to let in American cattle that have anaplaz and bluetongue without test so the border will open. This is the same industry that tells us the Americans are still considering the comments so border will open. If you believe that line of crap I have some ocean front property you might be interested in as an investment.

I never argued against testing just that we need to be real careful what we test. Dead and down are a real bad idea. Science or no science, if we have another positive BSE test the border will remain closed for a very long time. There is no question that the international reaction to a positive BSE test is unfair and extreme but that doesn’t change the reality. There is science and there is marketing, finding another BSE positive is real bad marketing and if you keep looking you are bound to find one. I’ve played hide and seek with my kids and looked everywhere for them without really trying that hard to find them. Of course they took great delight in finding me. We aren’t children here and it’s not too hard to learn how to look for something and not find it. The Americans are real good at it and maybe we should be too.

[farmers_son]

It is going to be interesting to see how many heads will be sent in from animals put down on the farm, and also how many 4D cows are sent to be euthanized.

[kato]

Far better to find a positive at a landfill than a packing plant if it comes to that.

It will be up to each individual to decide what to do with their animals. There will be some who want to volunteer, and some who won't. We all have to sit down and decide for ourselves.

Whatever we decide as individuals, as long as we get enough to fill the quota that's what matters.

We've got to keep some perspective here... if BSE was prevalent you would have thought that another would show up in the thousands of cattle who were associated with our Alberta cow. It didn't.