Border may never open.......

[ivbinconned]

American border might not reopen to Canadian beef exports, warns Harper
Tue Sep 7, 6:17 PM ET
SANDRA CORDON

OTTAWA (CP) - The U. S. border won't likely re-open to Canada's beef exports until later than 2005 - if ever, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper warned Tuesday.

In a pessimistic statement, Harper said Canada will have to find internal solutions to the mad cow crisis that has devastated the beef industry, because it could be a very long wait for crucial export markets to reopen. "We still do not know when the border will re-open," Harper told a brief news conference, one of his first in Ottawa since the June federal election.

"And frankly, given the strength of protectionist forces in the United States and given the ongoing Liberal mismanagement of Canada-U.S. relations, I do not believe we can know if the border will, in fact, reopen.

"This is strictly a political problem. It has nothing - nothing whatsoever, to do with the quality and safety of Canadian beef."

While Harper hinted that better relations between Canada's Liberal government and Washington might improve matters, he also suggested U.S. authorities are in no rush to solve the problem.

"Bad relations . . . have in my judgment without a doubt played a role in how poorly this has run its course," Harper said.

"That said, the ongoing American closure is without justification. . .this is simply a question of protectionism."

The crisis, which has cost Canadian producers billions, was triggered when a single case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE (news - web sites)) was discovered on a northern Alberta farm in May 2003.

The border was immediately shut to exports and while the U.S. now allows some cuts of beef to cross, certain live cattle exports from Canada remain banned.

Worsening matters, a BSE case was discovered in Washington state in December, making it impossible for U.S. producers to export, especially to the important Japanese market.

The issue has driven down beef prices paid to Canadian producers and left them with herds they can't afford to feed this winter.

Producers have suggested a range of solutions to make the Canadian industry more self-sufficient, from increasing slaughter and processing capacity to short-term financial aid until prices improve.

Agriculture Minister Andy Mitchell, who recently met his U.S. counterpart Ann Veneman to push for a speedy border opening, denied his Liberal government has mismanaged the issue.

And he accused Harper of playing politics with a complex issue.

"Rather than trying out political rhetoric I think we ought to be focusing on the specific issues that face us," he said during a Liberal retreat in Kelowna, B.C.

"I'm not going to speculate on a border opening, but I'm determined to work with the industry, with the provinces on developing made-in-Canada solutions," added Mitchell.

"We need to ensure that our producers have an opportunity to sustain and build an industry."

There doesn't seem to be much more the Canadian government or the industry could do on the diplomatic front, said feedlot operator Jack de Boer.

"The U.S. government is in a protectionist mode and until they get their markets back from Japan and other countries, I don't think they're interested in our beef," said De Boer, who holds about 15,000 head of cattle in southern Alberta.

Harper said short-term, low-interest loans might be possible to help producers. But he didn't give details or put a price tag on potential solutions.

Harper did call for more study and meetings on the mad cow crisis, especially on how to cope with a longtime border closure.

"We have to look at the indefinite shutting of the border. . . what are our plans going to be if the border remains fully or partly shut?" said Harper.

"It is completely unfair, American actions in this case are blatantly protectionist and without regard to their trading responsibilities."

De Boer said Canada may have to take the fight to the World Trade Organization (news - web sites) in Geneva, a long, costly process.

"That's a longshot, but I think our government at some point has got to take up that challenge and I think the time is here."

[kato]

You would think that Mr. Harper just learned about this. He's been pretty quiet for a long time.

If he really wants to help he can push the Liberals for some better laws to protect us from the results of the monopoly situation our packing industry is in.

Or push to have supplementary import quotas stopped.

Or push for more funding for producer owned packing plants.

Or maybe even try not to vote against investigating the packers if he's ever asked again. (That one still bugs me)

[cakadu]

Kato, as you have pointed out, there are many solutions - we just have to figure out which one has the greater likelihood of success and go with that.

Trying to borrow one's way out of trouble will never be a viable option.

How about finding new markets for the beef that will be available from the new packing plants?

Or not going to the "tried and true" people to come up with viable solutions?

Finding new markets for our beef will not ever be a bad thing as far as I'm concerned. Our total export only makes up about 10% of the what the Americans need, so why not look for new markets? We have to move away from what is easiest.

[cakadu]

I think youre right Kato. After Harper got his ass kicked he must have slept through the rest of the summer. Dipshit never said anything new, just politicing again with blame etc. etc.

Both Harper and Klein have decided that it may win them more points to head for the far end of the lake. Liberal promises of next week, next month are now seen as cry wolf tactics, and a new political approach was needed. Tory blue came up with the brainwave to talk negative and then grab the glory when something happens.

Too bad we need to deal with these dufuses to get anything done.

Vote Green!

[15444]

One thing that I have to say that I admire about the Conservatives is that Harper seems to be asking the question 'what if?'. What if the border doesn't open?. I know that is more a political ploy then anything else, but it is refreshing to see someone talking reality, rather then listening to our industry leaders, who, are so out of tune with US (every farmer/rancher here and across Canada), it's not even funny.

[cakadu]

Don't you think that the last thing that we need is more study and meetings on the continued border closure? Wouldn't some sort of action be better?

Yes, Harper is saying what if... We don't need more rhetoric, we need action.

One can get so bound up in studying something that you never do get to an action. That being said, whatever steps we do take, need to be reasonably thought out so that we can avoid some of the pitfalls of the last monied solutions.

[kato]

Guess what, if you study things long enough they fix themselves, and you don't have to do anything.

All the rhetoric we have been putting up with over the last year has been just that, rhetoric. They were hoping if they stood still and yapped long enough, the border would open and we would go away and leave them alone.

Too bad that didn't happen, and now they are going to have an even bigger mess on their hands.

I don't know about where everyone else here lives, but in our neighbourhood, the crop situation is deteriorating every day. We still have neighbours who's canola fields are bright yellow and in full bloom! The grain corn crop is a write off and the cereals are still very green. We are one good frost away from a major crop failure.

The grain boys are looking at how we have fared with the government over the last year, and they are worried big time.

Soon they may have angry cattle and grain farmers at the door.

[WoolyBear]

My wife and I had a close encounter with an ill informed urbanite today waiting in line to by some hardware. The fellow in front of us was sent home without his duck shotgun shells as he had to produce his Ammo permit. I turned to my wife and laughed and said........ I guess I'll have to send the government some more money to get my license so I'll be legal when it comes time to shoot my 10% (cows). The clerk snapped and ask why we don't all just shut in the bulls for a year? I expained politely (I think) that we need the calves, at what ever price to pay for most of the things that we need.

She said that we CHOSE our profession just as she did, and that why should the government continue to bail us farmers out..........

Our jaws dropped and we wished her a Merry Christmas and left.

I couldn't believe how simple a solution she gave all of us.

[15444]

And really, the clerk's vision is the sensible thing to realize. We are the ones who put ourselves in this mess, and we have to deal with it? Doesn't matter if its turning out the bulls every year, keeping those few extra heifers, or retaining all the heifers a few years back when the prices were looking even marginally decent?

Everything that happens relies on decisions being made and unfortunately, humans often make the wrong ones and then ask others to help them? We are kind of an anomaly in a 'dog eat dog', 'survival of the fittest' world?

There is no reason to get furious with those who pointedly tell you that 'you are where you are because you put yourself there,' because they are right? Every person once was 18 and made a decision when the finished school? Be a plumber, be a doctor? Live in the city, live in the country? Own a farm, not own a farm?

Some are all too willing to criticize others life decisions but become quite defensive and rude when theirs' is questioned?

A third-person viewpoint is often invaluable.

[wd40]

15444 - I can agree with you to a point. I would just like someone to help me compute in my old brain why our industry leaders didn't allow Japan to come over here back in May and June 2003 when they offered to come and help us trace our problem out. That was like a double black eye, and totally in-hospitable. Now we all pay.

[15444]

wd40:

simply put, its because our industry leaders have too much pride and are hoping to put their names in the history books as 'The Canadian Man Who Ended the BSE Crisis in Canada.' Either that, or they are all just a bunch of nimrods. Promote democracy, take your pick of the above two choices.

[Bruce14]

"There is no reason to get furious with those who pointedly tell you that 'you are where you are because you put yourself there,' because they are right?"

Now I am not being critical in the least but I think in fairness we ought to examine this a bit further.

No one told us we had to farm or invest in the cattle business. There were various gov't incentives put in place in different provinces however to encourage this. No we didn't have to do it but I know individuals who were told they had to diversify and it made sense at that time.

No one also told us in the '70s the amount of gov't intervention and b.s. that would be put in place by our own gov't as well as our customers. It's one thing to second guess interest rates, weather, fickle consumer demands, environmental groups and such in our own country but when you have to do the same with other countries it is a totally different ball game than selling some paint and nails.

Wooly Bear, I would have asked the clerk how she would have reacted if on last May 20th she had her doors closed due to no fault of hers and then opened a crack in September to allow only certain products to be sold and she had to sell them at a guaranteed loss. No one told her she had to be in the retail business.

How about a factory that builds widgets. They employee hundreds of thousands from the plant to trucking and retailing. They have been building those widgets for decades and all of a sudden one of the main customers for these widgets demand they be tested for a certain criteria by the Canadian Standards Council. The CSA won't put its stamp on that product because it believes it doesn't need to be tested for what the customer wants even if that test may save the factory. Are we to just simply tell them "Nobody told you to start manufacturing widgets" and then walk away?

Not all residents do understand however as they continue to have an abundance of CHEAP food and feel that is a God given right as a Canadian. To those folks I say that it takes X amount of dollars to produce your food and you can either pay for it at the counter or through government programs.

One other "choice" we are still able to make is where we spend our hard earned dollars. I will continue, and encourage others, to support those businesses who appreciate our business and support us.

No I don't buy into what that clerk said and take my business elsewhere after telling both her and the owner why I was leaving. I don't know how large of a community some of you deal in but I assure you the retailers in ours know full well how this is impacting them and appreciate any business we give them.

[hsiemens]

Harper may be right and he may not be right - but I've said many times, our politicians did cattle a huge dis-service when suggesting the border might open soon without any information to back it up.
I think the Americans will hide behind the R-Calf litigation for some time to come. The only thing that might happen, if Bush remains president, that one day after the election, some time next spring, he may say get that border open. That's the only hope we have of it opening.
Farmers have lost much of the goodwill with consumers, and getting angry at them won't help.
Many cattle producers are angry and when I meet one, I'm very careful how I respond to their questions or answers.

[15444]

I guess, Bruce14, that everything has risks, some minor and some major, and you just go with what you feel comfortable with?

No, BSE came about and we could do nothing to stop the fallout, but then, that is just a risk? In the whole scheme of things, farming is probably the most risky jobs one can have, with the exception of stuntmen.

That clerk takes the risk everyday of being involved in a workplace accident, being fired, etc. Although she doesn't worry and complain about it, I don't imagine it's far from her mind? If she loses her job tommorrow, she doesn't get a huge bailout package to cover her expenses for the next few months. She gets the pay she has earned and hopefully she was smart enough to save some of it? And if she can't find another job, the welfare option is always there (but not a seperate program to help those clerks that have been fired from their jobs during the years of ____ to ____?).

And if supply management in Canada was thrown out the window tommorrow and all the dairy and chicken guys lost all the assets involved with the quota, should we bail them out? Quota prices have been very good to excellent the past few years and any dairy producer that is sitting on 50-100kg of quota is sitting on his own little gold mine? Most logical people in the real world would take the money and run?

The biggest problem with all agriculture producers is that we don't treat our occupation like an actual job? We become to emotionally attached to it and don't cash in while the going is good?

[bombay_43]

I guess this whole discussion brings to mind, various situations that many of us, have been exposed to lately due to BSE.

For example, the oil field worker who stated that he was feeling sorry for the farmers, but not any longer, as they have had a year and a half to get their sh** together and build some packing plants!

Perhaps someone here could explain to me, just when the hell, the farmers suddenly became responsible for "building the packing plants"!!

Do you think that this oil field worker is contemplating building refineries if we drop his wages??!!

Perhaps in the case of the store clerk, we should also realize the investment she put into her job, in order to receive her weekly paycheck. Did she buy the building, the land, the saleable items in the store, etc.?? Does she buy at retail prices, and sell her products at wholesale prices??

I think that everyone better stop and take a better look at the bigger picture! The clerk invested her lunch kit, and does not even require a grade 12 education to be a store clerk. Don't even bring up what the farmer invested, in order to make the same, (or less) weekly wage as this same clerk!

I would shop else where as well!!

Incidently, this same oil field worker, keeps a few head of cows for his family members, drives on purple gas and farm plates, and enjoys the same deductions and farm programs as the rest of us! Time to decide who the farmers really are in this country!!

Have a good one!