Unfair?

[blackjack]

cakadu... there is definitely a subsidy being paid by someone out of Quebec... our yearlings we sold in July all went to Quebec to be finished... not sure though how much a head subsidy ...no one would say other than don't know...

[ivbinconned]

Hope you don't mind but I will copy and paste a couple of posts that I made on this topic one year ago.


posted Sep 6, 2003 11:04

From 1991 to 1999, there was a 78%reduction in direct federal expenditures in support of the agri-food sector in Sask. and a 69% reduction for Alberta. In the same time period there was only a 27% reduction in Quebec. I am NOT bad mouthing the Quebec farmer but I do "bad mouth" a system that bleeds money from Alberta to "lavishly" support farms in another province. If Alberta farmers don't mind this at least you would think they would rise up and insist that the money goes to there neighboring province where there grandpa and uncles farm.
Now that, is just the federal expenditures! What about the "lavish" support of Alberta dollars the Quebec farmer gets through their provincial government via federal transfers...hush-hush...were not supposed to know. While I have seen my Saskatchewan assets drop in value 50% in the last 10 to 15 years, in Quebec the high level of Quebec government support is a major reason why average net worth of grain and oil seed producers increased 51.3% compared to 12.7 per cent in Ontario from 93 to 97; during the same period, average assets in Quebec increased by 53.5 per cent compared to 15.8% in Ontario.
When total crop receipts for Quebec were just $1.3 billion as compared to Ontario’s $3.1 billion the Quebec Ag ministry spent $527 million while Ontario's spent just $372 million! Neat what you can do as a "have not" province while Alberta sleeps.
I have said it before in these threads, what does a pick pocket do? He makes you look the other way! So we are told to look and blame the U.S. and Europe, while with in our own country the 21 year old Quebec ASRA programs (indirectly funded with ALBERTA money) heaps impressive benefits on, for example, in Quebec a 780 acre corn grower over a 9 year period ending in 99 amounted to $580,000, or an average of $64,445 per year with a 99 provision of $99,480! Not bad eh!
This program now includes all ag production and guess what, it is acreage based, cost of production based, and also has an interesting aspect to it in that the benefits are based on 90% of a skilled workers wages in Quebec, ie. Nurse, teacher, government employees, etc.
Could this be why the average age of farmers in Quebec is much lower than say Saskatchewan.
Could it be that a net payout in 1999 of $120.00 per acre of barley to a Quebec farmer is why he could afford to send us that load of hay that the Canadian Alliance got so excited about and we where all supposed to feel so warm and fuzzy about. Give me a break!

[ivbinconned]

So today not only do the feds cost share in that provinces programs which are far more costly than Ontario's even though Quebec has 25,000 less farmers. They also hand Alberta cash directly to the Quebec government which flows through to there farm’s!
The result today is this. Net payout's per acre in Quebec for the years 98, 99, 2000 for corn were...$117.03; 122.27; 149.23!
For Soy...same years...$28.09; $48.24; $80.80!
For Wheat...$92.81; $81.70; $100.49!!
Average New Investment per farm in Quebec as compared to Ontario (sorry I don’t have figures for Alberta) for the years 93, 95, 97 are as follows; Quebec $28,323; $43,259; $45804.
Ontario $18,053; $25,207; $30,334
Average New Investment on grain and oilseed farms 50% higher in Quebec than Ontario in 97 speaks volumes about producer perceptions of future profitability.

[oxbow]

The government responding to the bse crisis in Canada with financial assistance is not a subsidy. If only there was sufficient packer space for the current production, most producers would be quite happy and profitable with resulting prices.

Additionally, the only way RCALF will not be encouraged to support more protectionism is if the Canadian government steps in to maintain producer's prosperity and existance. If Canadian producers are alloweed to fail, RCALF will only be encouraged to support protectionist aims.

[cowman]

I would suspect R-Calf will be calling this an unfair subsidy and definitely pushing for trade action against Canadian beef?
I would assume the Canadian government did their homework and made sure this program was "green"?
I find it interesting that America challenges every little thing that even hints of a sweet heart deal while the Canadian government does nothing about American subsidized products? The corn flowing into southern Alberta two years ago would be a classic example? A blatant case of dumping(but done in a "green" way) and not a peep out of the government! Now I realize the Canadian government would have eventually lost this case but the point is they would have tied up the corn from entering the country until the feed problem was solved! Sort of like the US does with just about every product we produce?
This corn deal was not fair to our grainfarmers. It dropped their prices and ruined a fairly decent market for feed grain.

[BFW]

Everyone likes to complain about the corn coming in a couple of years ago. The simple fact is that for a time we could not source a reliable supply of barley hardly any price. Corn came in because you could line up a reliable supply of it and lock in the price of it if you so desired. Without it huge volumes of cattle would had to have been shipped to the US for finishing. There was simply not enough barley available to get all the cattle fed, either that or the farmers just got greedy.

[ivbinconned]

Cowman....right on

BFW...nonsense

Saskatchewan had a bumper crop that year. I sent 20000 bu of barley to Iron Springs at 1.60 bushel because I had to!! And that goes for alot of us. The corn coming in dropped my take home about a buck a bushel and then the crank went out of my tractor and I was finished...with grain farming.

[ivbinconned]

The feds jump to defend any thing that is of interest to their turf and many other eastern interests but could care less about any western interest that they do not have a stake in.

[BFW]

Ivbinconned the fall of 2001 and winter of 2002 was the time that most of the corn was coming in. I just checked and we were paying $155.00-$160.00/tonne in the Strathmore area at that time. That equates to about $3.25/bushel so if you were getting only $1.60/bushel I can see why you have problems. Better check the facts.

[dolin]

i am an quebec farmer and you know what, almost all crop farmer in my area have a job outside the farm.we don t live just whit the grain dolin

[ivbinconned]

BFW; sorry about that! My mind was on the year 1999. By the way how much corn came in that year?

Cowmans point is still intact. There is little in the way of empathy between different sectors of agriculture in western Canada with 24- plus interest groups I am told. How many in Quebec...ONE.

[cakadu]

That is precisely the point - ivbeen - the producers in Quebec speak with one voice and out here we have a myriad of voices. The UPA is an extremely powerful and effective group. One of the newer threads gives a view on what the UPA does.

I don't really know the answer to this, so I will ask if it is a fair comparison between corn and soybeans versus the barley and even canola we grow out here? Seems to me that these former crops make more than at least the barley does. I have no idea on yields, so can't compare them that way, but I'm sure others on the site do.

I know a fellow that grows IP soy in Quebec and he likely gets paid a premium because it is IP. His costs are likely higher as well because of choosing to go into this program.

I've heard more than one person say that until agriculture starts to speak with one voice, it will go nowhere. Perhaps there is more than just a grain of truth to that statement (pun intended.)