Unfair?

[oxbow]

The government responding to the bse crisis in Canada with financial assistance is not a subsidy. If only there was sufficient packer space for the current production, most producers would be quite happy and profitable with resulting prices.

Additionally, the only way RCALF will not be encouraged to support more protectionism is if the Canadian government steps in to maintain producer's prosperity and existance. If Canadian producers are alloweed to fail, RCALF will only be encouraged to support protectionist aims.

[cowman]

I would suspect R-Calf will be calling this an unfair subsidy and definitely pushing for trade action against Canadian beef?
I would assume the Canadian government did their homework and made sure this program was "green"?
I find it interesting that America challenges every little thing that even hints of a sweet heart deal while the Canadian government does nothing about American subsidized products? The corn flowing into southern Alberta two years ago would be a classic example? A blatant case of dumping(but done in a "green" way) and not a peep out of the government! Now I realize the Canadian government would have eventually lost this case but the point is they would have tied up the corn from entering the country until the feed problem was solved! Sort of like the US does with just about every product we produce?
This corn deal was not fair to our grainfarmers. It dropped their prices and ruined a fairly decent market for feed grain.

[BFW]

Everyone likes to complain about the corn coming in a couple of years ago. The simple fact is that for a time we could not source a reliable supply of barley hardly any price. Corn came in because you could line up a reliable supply of it and lock in the price of it if you so desired. Without it huge volumes of cattle would had to have been shipped to the US for finishing. There was simply not enough barley available to get all the cattle fed, either that or the farmers just got greedy.

[ivbinconned]

Cowman....right on

BFW...nonsense

Saskatchewan had a bumper crop that year. I sent 20000 bu of barley to Iron Springs at 1.60 bushel because I had to!! And that goes for alot of us. The corn coming in dropped my take home about a buck a bushel and then the crank went out of my tractor and I was finished...with grain farming.

[ivbinconned]

The feds jump to defend any thing that is of interest to their turf and many other eastern interests but could care less about any western interest that they do not have a stake in.

[BFW]

Ivbinconned the fall of 2001 and winter of 2002 was the time that most of the corn was coming in. I just checked and we were paying $155.00-$160.00/tonne in the Strathmore area at that time. That equates to about $3.25/bushel so if you were getting only $1.60/bushel I can see why you have problems. Better check the facts.

[dolin]

i am an quebec farmer and you know what, almost all crop farmer in my area have a job outside the farm.we don t live just whit the grain dolin

[ivbinconned]

BFW; sorry about that! My mind was on the year 1999. By the way how much corn came in that year?

Cowmans point is still intact. There is little in the way of empathy between different sectors of agriculture in western Canada with 24- plus interest groups I am told. How many in Quebec...ONE.

[cakadu]

That is precisely the point - ivbeen - the producers in Quebec speak with one voice and out here we have a myriad of voices. The UPA is an extremely powerful and effective group. One of the newer threads gives a view on what the UPA does.

I don't really know the answer to this, so I will ask if it is a fair comparison between corn and soybeans versus the barley and even canola we grow out here? Seems to me that these former crops make more than at least the barley does. I have no idea on yields, so can't compare them that way, but I'm sure others on the site do.

I know a fellow that grows IP soy in Quebec and he likely gets paid a premium because it is IP. His costs are likely higher as well because of choosing to go into this program.

I've heard more than one person say that until agriculture starts to speak with one voice, it will go nowhere. Perhaps there is more than just a grain of truth to that statement (pun intended.)

[oxbow]

Cowman, "I would suspect R-Calf will be calling this an unfair subsidy and definitely pushing for trade action against Canadian beef?"


Already have, but RCALF is usually irrelevant. THey just have that 1 court ruling or they'd be completely ignored.

[cowman]

BFW: You are right on about the price.That is exactly what it was...$3.25. However the price had no where to go but up, until the subsidized corn came in and then it went down! I believe my cousin finally sold at $2.85 after holding it another 6 months!
Was he being greedy to hold out for more money? That year was a pretty ugly drought if you might remember. Yields were down about 40%...on an average? Supply and demand would dictate a higher price per bushel? Instead Canada lets in the unfairly subsidized corn and destroys any chance to make a profit. That is in fact what happened and it was blatantly unfair to the Canadian grainfarmer? Stold that money right out of his pocket!
Once again you had government picking the winners and the losers and not being fair to one sector. This is not a good thing? It breeds animosity between the various farmers and does not build confidence that our rulers are just and fair?
Another classic example of government favoring one industry over another was the fusarium infested hay and straw coming into Alberta from the eastern prairies. The Alberta government broke their own laws here to "save" the cattle industry...of course in the meantime they put our grain industry in jeoprody! Now maybe we dodged that bullet...or maybe it will come back to haunt us, but the fact is the government actively encouraged people to break their own laws!
This whole idea that we must sacrifice everything for the "cattle business" is a crock? There is one hell of a lot more to agriculture than a bunch of money losing cattle! If they killed off every darned cow in Alberta we all might be a lot better off!

[ivbinconned]

As to the re-named Quebec ASRA program and the comparisons that may be invoked. My contact in eastern Ontario seeds 1500 acres so for some to say oh ya but the farms are small doesn't wash.
The programs have some very unique aspects to them. Three that realy stand out, 1;they are based on cost of production. 2;they are acreage based (more acres more paymnent) 3; and this one I really like, they are based on 90% of a skilled workers salary!! So what ever the teacher or nurse or crown corporation employee is getting would have an impact on the farm subsidy.

All accomplished through the slight of hand, highway robbery, corrupt equalization system. Every Albertan must be made aware of this and take action to bring it to an end.

Cowman lead us out.

[cakadu]

What does ASRA stand for? Here in Alberta it is the Alberta Science and Research, but I doubt that is what you're referring to.

Is it possible to make a fair comparison between soy and barley on a cash crop basis?

[ivbinconned]

A.S.R.A. in Quebec stood for Assurance Stabilization des Revenus Agricoles but it now has a new name??

I think you can do a comparison of corn and barley and in 1999 the program paid out a net amount of $120.00 per acre (Alberta cash)to the Quebec producer.

Today the UPA, that represents all producer sectors, manages and disperses annually $300,000,000 (3 hundred million of Alberta cash) dolled out to them by the Quebec government!
They have in place a 7 year commintment from their provincial government and can therefore borrow against future assured money!

[ivbinconned]

Oh ...ONE MORE THING! These funds are managed a board of producers with just a token representative from their government.