Hunting Signs

[nerves]

Ok this is something I know about I work for an outfitter and guide for Bighorn sheep. Most sheep hunts sell for thirteen to fifteen thousand U.S. currancy. This 700,000 thousand dollar bighorn is a chance to hunt sheep in the rut in Alberta most people go to Cadamin out by Hinton. Any new outfitters would have to buy the tags usally 4 to a drainge from 30 to 40 thousand a tag one time and then pay a lease fea to goverment every year. The goverment can also pull tags from the outfitter at any time if they feel the sheep numbers are getting low. The people I have guided have been doctors, lawyers, developers etc. They are good people and don"t understand this border closer. The last guy I guided asked me if there was any thing he could bring up for me. I told him the best thing he could do for me would be open up the border. He said he could"nt even get his kids to listen to him how is he going to get goverment to listen to him. I get paid 140.00 /day for 2, fourteen day hunts. Hard work absolutly but a change is also good to get rid of stress.

[les]

I dont let in outfitters to hunt on my land...not because of BSE but because I cant charge for the hunt. I am paying the morgage and all else that goes with owning farmland.All I get out of it is tire tracks across my land,and all too often cows runnin down the road. Maybe if the government would let us charge a small fee it would be different.

[cswilson]

They built a new swimming pool here a few years ago and were talking about surcharging the rural people because we don't pay town taxes-I asked if it was o.k. if I put up a toll booth for all the road hunters we get around here to help me pay my share. Landowners aren't looking to get rich fromhunting but we should't have to put on a free party for everybody.

[cakadu]

Nerves, I'm told that the chances of getting into Cadamin are far less than 1%. My husband has been applying to get in there for years and has never been drawn. He did luck out a few years ago and get drawn for 412 down by Canmore, but came home with nothing because it wasn't "THE" one.

I know of a couple of other producers that guide in the hunting season and likely for the same reasons you do - a bit of money and a big change of scenery.
A new vantage point does help to change ones outlook on life.

I'm in agreement with some of the others - just because we've been hurt, doesn't mean we need to lash out at others, even though it sure might feel good for a few minutes.

Too many consumers are at least one generation if not two, three or more, removed from where their food comes from.

We had friends down in the U.S. for many months this past year and if it wasn't for phoning home to us here in Canada, they would never have known what was going on with the BSE mess and they actively looked for news of it down there.

People are as informed as they want to be and for a good portion of consumers, if it is still making it to the shelves and if they aren't being charged more for it, then there isn't a problem, right?

[ivbinconned]

If you want to take out your frustrations on somebody, take it out on the federal liberals.
Support every Alberta Sepratist candidate you can.

Take note Ontario's packer Better Beef is 100% Canadian owned...could it be that if there had not been the billions drained from alberta over the years there just might be more Canadian owned packers in western Canada!!

I think I am going to sell hunting permits to a limited number of hunters for access to my land. We will call it a trespass fee.

[farmers_son]

I recall reading a few years back where if American ranchers accepted government subsidies they were then obligated to allow the public (probably just U.S. citizens) to hunt on their property. Hope that doesn’t catch on here.

When the border was completely closed after May 20, 2003 deer and other big game were banned too. Anne Veneman made a point of emphasizing that Canadian game would be allowed into the U.S. when they eased the ban on Canadian beef in August of 2003 as a means of building American support.

We have all heard talk of shutting off the oil and gas to the Yanks to get them to open the border to our beef, but we all know that is not likely to happen. What would happen if the Alberta government did not issue big game tags to foreigners? Would that work? Lets face it, the Klein government has not really taken any concrete steps to see the border open. Yes there has been a couple of trade trips, some phone calls and of course throw some oil/subsidy money at the problem and hope it goes away. None of this has twisted the arm of our southern neighbours however. Just an idea but if Alberta were to ban hunting privileges to Americans that is a message that might get through. This November sees elections in the U.S. and Alberta, the timing might be right. Certainly would put those R-Calf boys on the spot if their protectionism caused them to take heat from their hunting friends. If the Americans can be protectionist when it comes to their beef industry why can’t Canadians and Albertans protect their wildlife?

If I had my preference, I would be happy to see the Americans hunt up here and our live cattle going south just like normal. But we have got a problem and we do need some leverage or else there is little incentive for the Yanks to ever announce the new rules allowing our cattle south. Maybe hunting is the way to reach the American voter.

[cakadu]

Being a realist, just what percentage of Americans do you think come up here to hunt every year? I would guess it would be less than 1% of the population that does it and maybe nerves has a better idea. How much of an impact do you think they'll have against the other 99%?

[farmers_son]

The NRA is a powerful lobby group in the U.S., very influential even if they represent a small percentage of the U.S. voting public. Could be this is a hot button that we can push without infringing upon NAFTA.

If there is one thing BSE has shown us is just how uninformed we are of the political process in the U.S. and how to influence it.

I just threw this out as a suggestion or trial balloon. May work, may make things worse. I am not sure our Alberta government is really looking for solutions in any event, there is more political mileage in timing subsidy cheques to arrive just as the election rolls around.

[canuck]

I don't think this will actually stop any Americans from having a hunting trip to Canada but it may just open their eyes to our situation.There will still be lots of land for them to hunt on.But if this is one way the cattle people can make a statement to them then why not.

[cakadu]

Well, I guess you could say that is one solution to the dilemma that we are in.

I've been thinking that it would possibly make far more sense to engage in something that might have a long term effect, like oh attending ABP meetings or even BIG-C meetings to show support and perhaps channel the future in terms of the way these organizations are run and what you would like to see them accomplishing on your behalf.

If you don't like what you're getting, then what you need to do is change it. If apathy is the problem with these organizations, then get out and let people know what you want. Based on past experience they will do what they want unless they hear strongly to the contrary and/or are given some direction.

It is unlikely that these hunters will make the connection from not being allowed to hunt in Canada to the BSE problem in Canada. They are here to hunt, not engage in politics, understand our woes or anything else. When you go on a holiday, do you become involved in what the locals are going through?

[WoolyBear]

"If you buy my beef, you can hunt my deer"

Maybe this is what a bunch of us should do for hunting privledges. Tell the good ol boys that the border is still closed to LIVE BEEF and we have to get rid of our cattle by selling it off the farm. Send a BOX full home with them.

Can you imagine how mad they will be when THEIR Customs boys tell them that they can't bring the beef home?

[cowman]

Actually we could use some more hunters up here! The darned deer and moose just about eat us out of house and home some years!
It would be nice if we could get some hunters that didn't feel it was necessary to throw beer cans and whiskey bottles all over the place, use the grain bins to sight their rifles in, and use the gates instead of cutting the fence etc. but hey beggars can't be too choosey, right?
I used to have a cop who came out regularily but he got lazy and doesn't come out anymore. When I asked him how come he said by the time he goes through all the garbage and pays to get it cut and wrapped it is cheaper to buy meat at Safeway!
Had two young guys come out last year wanting to hunt. They parked up by the bush for a few hours and I figured well those boys are hard at it. Later I found a nice little pile of beer cans and cigarette butts right where they were parked, so I guess that was their great hunting expedition?

[cswilson]

I've hunted over lots of Saskatchewan and 95 percent of people will grant you permission if you hunt on foot. I've asked on lots of places that were posted No Hunting and got to go there. As far as hunting for cheap meat LOL I quit kidding myself bout that along time ago. We hunt mostly at home-so no driving but still it costs but then so does every form of recreation. Rather have my kids hunting than sitting on butt playing video games. Most Americans I've hunted with have been way more ethical than the local truck warriors.

[flatbroke]

Speaking of ethics and hunting, I've been hearing from several neighbors of the trouble they've had with local guides blatantly trespassing on their land with parties of American hunters.
When my friend confronted them and threatened to have them charged after refusing his request to vacate, the guide just laughed and said "Go ahead! the worst I could get is a $100.00 fine, and these guys pay $1,500.00 a day!"
As far as the signs are concerned, they may help or they may not, but I for one would like to see them up on every farm across the country. As was stated earlier, being our polite Canadian selves has gotten us absolutely nowhere, and I've gotten pretty sick of *****-footing around these jerks! I just look forward to the day when a positive BSE case is found south of the border that can't be covered up or blamed on Canada!
(P.S. I let ANYONE hunt on my land who first pays me the courtesy of asking permission, which sadly is about 30% of those that do...) The rest get dealt with rather harshly, especially since I had to put down my best horse after he'd been gut-shot and left by these "ethical sportsmen"

[Cedar]

A $100 fine!!! That's totally ridiculous! No wonder nobody has any respect for anybody else's property any more. That really drives me nuts, I mean my property is my property, period! Whether it's my house, my yard, my barn, or my field...it's still mine...isn't it? So how can anyone even begin to expect to go tramping around all over the place on private property without asking permission. Just imagine if people did that sort of thing in town, like, say a group of 10 or 20 people come along and parked on your front lawn for a picnic...and a beer...or two! The principle is the same. In most cases, if people came and asked, I wouldn't have a problem and would probably say "ya, sure", it's just when they don't ask (like as if they own the place themselves or something) that really is annoying.

Flatbroke: what province are you in? I wonder if the $100 fine law is the same all over?

Rant ended (aaahh...feel much better!)