New Japanese Beef Proposal

[farmers_son]

I noted the comment to the effect that customer is always right. Was Japan right when they attacked Pearl Harbour?

This is not business between a customer and a consumer. This is a trade war, for diplomatic reasons called a trade dispute. Japan's insistence on 100% testing is not supported by science, even Europe is not doing it. In effect Japan is trying to unilaterally write the rules on international trade. That is just plain wrong.

If you won't stand up for what is right then you don't stand for anything. The rest of the world has to stand up to Japan's unreasonable demands. Anything else is spineless.

As a middle power Canada must support science based trade. If we followed the advice of those who would give in to Japan's unscientific and unreasonable demands then Canada soon would loose our ability to trade anywhere. Any nation could use the excuse of consumerism to block trade and protect their domestic industry.

[farmers_son]

Farms_son. I wil first say once again that the only reason I believe in testing is for trade agreements. Personally I think we are on the wrong path with BSE from the get go, but that is another story.

As far as comparing to Europe. The amount of testing that was being done in Canada and the USA prior to May 20, 03 was nothing. The 8000 head this year, and 30,000 head next year will show more cases. If the Americans were classified the same as Canada and had to test 4D's to change their OIE status they would find more cases as well, and they may anyway.

This whole issue of testing for BSE is simply about testing for BSE. If you test for it you will find it.

My attitude is, we might as well test for the Japanese if it will open a border, or the next case we find (and we will) will delay the process again and again.

Jensend - as far as CFIA softening.

The lastest I feel from speaking with a number of folks is that the CFIA has never outright said, "If a plant is built and application is made for testing for export markets, WE WILL NOT ALLOW IT". They have never come public with a statement that they would allow either,BUT, there is no plant proposal on their desk at this time either.

One little tidbit to go along with the Peace country proposal to build a testing facility on site is that Sunterra has a similar plan.

I have not spoken with Dr.Gary Little(Head Canadian CFIA BSE Vet) himself but his phone number is (613) 225 - 2342 extension 3862

Our plant proposal is a ways off yet as well, and I suspect that CFIA will only skirt the issue feeling that premature press would just cause a lot of tadoo about nothing since no plant will be running for a good time yet.

[farmers_son]

Now that is an interesting statement, the only reason you believe in testing is for trade agreements. The only reason I see testing should be done is for surveillance, to demonstrate to the world we don’t have any BSE. It would seem we are in agreement that BSE testing not be done for food safety reasons. Better to remove the SRMs as there is no international reaction to that and it provides 100% food safety.
The International Review Committee dictated to the U.S. that they test to a higher degree than Canada because the U.S. was unable to trace back all the progeny from that cow in Washington. However the U.S. knows better than to find a positive and destroy their industry in the process like Canada did.
I don’t see how you can say we will test for Japan but not test for our consumers or for the United States or every other potential customer. If you test for Japan then you test for everyone. Then you no longer stand for science or fair trade or good business. Japan is wrong and if we were to go down that road we would be wrong too. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

[jensend]

so we'll go down with the ship just to show the rest of the world we're stupid.

[farmers_son]

No we stand with the rest of the world to show Japan they are wrong and that science has to be the arbitrator in world trade. Once that is established with Japan, the U.S. is next.

[farmers_son]

You mean stand with the USDA. The rest of the world is using BSE testing as a marketing tool. Read the Alberta Beef Magazine September addition. Proof of BSE testing is written on MacDonalds place mats in some countries.

I am not positive on total numbers, but percentage wise Canada and the US are about the same in terms of numbers tested for survailance, HOWEVER, Canada tests only 4D cattle, and the USA is not held to 4D's. This is because Canada is the source of the US cow, according to OIE.

[jensend]

farmers_son - you forget we are a bse nation. the united states is not abiding by oie guidelines so why should the japanese? in every negotiation usually both parties have to give up something they want. the other bse nations have a much stricter testing regimen than what the usa, and by extension canada, is willing to perform. some canadians need to remember we have had a homegrown case of bse and even if the science is undetermined we are going to have to perform to a certain standard to regain markets. you are reminiscent of rsomer in that you always seem to come up with 'you can't get there from here' whenever a solution is proposed.

[kato]

Science has never had anything to do with protectionist behaviour. If it isn't BSE testing, it will be something else. It's just a fact of life. If the intention is to keep trade out by throwing up barriers, then there will be new barriers all the time.

We will never know how much business we may have had in Europe if we had given up implants. Maybe we would have had a lot, maybe nothing.

What happens if Australia finds one? I know they don't test, but that may not always be the case. If Japan wants to get cranky with them, they could insist on them testing too. It just takes some political will in Japan to make it an issue. Maybe they aren't happy with another sort of trade with Australia, and use BSE testing as leverage. It can happen.

What we have to decide is if we want to be in the international trade business or not. We see how the game is played, and if we want in, then we play the game along with everyone else. Face it, we are not big enough to force anyone to change rules just for us, or because it is 'right'.

Either that or we sit in our little corner and feel sorry for ourselves.

[farmers_son]

I meant stand with the rest of the worlds major exporting countries. Of the worlds key beef net exporters, Brazil, Australia , New Zealand and Canada, we already test the most. The EU is considered a beef exporter but like the U.S. is a net importer of beef. The U.S. remains the worlds largest importer of beef while Brazil is expected to pass Australia as the largest exporter. Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, and for that matter the South America countries do not test any significant numbers for BSE.

Brazil’s 2004 exports are forecast to be 1.4 million tonnes, Australia 1.3 million tonnes, Canada third in the world at .565 million tonnes, New Zealand a close fourth at .56 million tonnes. The U.S. is well down the list at .195 million tonnes projected exports for 2004. The EU with its extensive testing program will export only .36 million tonnes, mostly to Russia which will buy anything cheap. Certainly no EU exports to Japan.

http://www.fas.usda.gov/dlp/circular/2004/04-03LP/Beefoverview.pdf

[cakadu]

It could very well be that Australian beef gets into Japan because they haven't had a case of BSE that they know of - YET.

On the other hand, Australia has been more than willing to give the Japanese what they want in terms of product versus someone like Canada having gone in and tell them what they need to buy. Big difference which has produced results for the Australians.

If you want to bring in the trade aspect, yes, Australia does do a fair bit of trade with Japan, but an awful lot of Australians go to Singapore to buy goods as well.

[jensend]

i guess since the eu is a net importer the japanese market is of no interest to them since it wants high end cuts and the russians will take what the europeans don't want. that would be the more likely reason for no european exports to japan than any particular distrust of the european product. seems to me the japanese (and others) market would be of vital interest to us. the usa doesn't want us out of step with them because if we do move on our own it will probably give us an advantage. this 'sound science' absurdity is getting more ludicrous every day. if so much is known why haven't the projected numbers of vcjd materialized? the japanese may be the intelligent ones for demanding testing when there is not enough known about this disease or condition. we are allowing ourselves to be held back. i also believe we are suffering unnecessary expense by losing byproduct value which would recover at least part of the cost of testing. the large packers don't want their production methods disturbed and that is the biggest impetus behind the dispute between n. america and japan.