Grazing Cows

[roly]

PS Grassfarmer tried to send you e-mail but it returned
mine is

rolgibson@btinternet.com

[cowman]

roly: I would say grassfarmers 3.5 acres grazing for 8 months is pretty close to right on. I'd be pretty leery of even attempting to graze straight alphalfa. Who needs the headache?
I would suggest you stick pretty much with a black angus cow herd? That is what the market wants...today!
There is no big money in cattle in Canada...never was really! But I believe you might catch the next wave as we get this darned mad cow thing settled.
Welcome to Canada and I hope you enjoy the ride!

[whiteface]

My neighbor grazes straight alfalfa from May 1st to end of October with about 2.5 acres to a pair of beautiful char/sim cows with mostly charolais calves, some red simmental. My point is that I'm green with envy every year looking across my pasture at such a gorgeous herd. I know genetics play a big part but the cattle are fat, sassy, breed on time and always have exceptionally good-looking calves with monster weaning weights in the fall. Yes, I do attribute a good degree of his success to the alfalfa grazing. I know that his cows are simply accustomed to it and he doesn't "pre-treat" them with anything. No creep, big cows, the field looks after them pretty good. He had one dead in the field this spring and every jealous neighbor near him tried to laugh in his face about how the alfalfa grazing had finally caught up to him. One dead in 5 years? Could have been anything that got her. I graze my straight alfalfa hay field after frost and get the weight gains before going into the winter. I find my cows milk heavier than a lot of cows (all breeds) and putting them on that good alfalfa really helps going into the winter. If I had different land, I'd graze it straight just like my neighbor, unfortunatly, a lot of my land is "junk" that needs to be cleaned up by the cows. Herefords are the best foragers around but if you need sheer weight gains, not the ones to go with, better to have them as terminal cross cows or if you like less labor.
Another neigbor has purebred red angus on intensly managed straight orchard grass. I really love orchard grass for cattle, but again, he didn't get as good-looking calves as the alfalfa grown calves UNTIL he turned them all out on the barley stubble to clean up, then they started moving. And speaking of moving, maybe cattle don't like orchard grass as much as I thought or they're just true to their reputation angus, but occasionally the electric fence containing them would go down (or they would put it down!) and off they went...
By comparison, those big white cows accross the street on alfalfa and my whitefaces on native lay around most of the day chewing their cud instead of looking for escape routes.
These of course are only my observations and my opinion is still that there are good and bad in all breeds and in all management situations.
Generally, most people plan on 3-5 acres a pair (even in Ituna, I know people there, and now you Roly, welcome to Canada!) most people want to graze less than 5-10 percent alfalfa, and most people agree that GOOD black (all breeds are black now) ANGUS crossed cattle maintain value over the long term.
Good for you, roly for trying a new venture at 53! Many of us are trying a new venture these days as well, learning to walk all over again as we sort out the industry post BSE! It can be done. My dad told me there is money in everything if we choose to educate ourselves and be the best at whatever we do.
Good luck and welcome again!

[whiteface]

Roly good luck and good for you to take up the challenge of coming to a new country and taking on a new venture . 53 isn't OLD for a farmer in Canada. The average age of farmers here is nearly 60 !!
Hey Cowman, if you throw a shot of Limo into those Black Angus you get one heck of a cross, good mother cows, great calves and top the market !!! ( just couldn't keep silent on that issue any longer !) Roly, we all say our breed is the best, but, just like buying a vehicle, you have to select what you want and what you think will do the best for your operation.
Don't let our breed bias sway your decision, although cowman is right, the black cattle are very much in demand. If I were you I would talk to local cattle buyers, auction markets etc. and get some idea of what is bringing the best prices in your area, then look for cattle privately. There are lots of good cows for sale, and you may as well take your pick of the good ones.

[cswilson]

Well I assume is in the black soil zone of Sask.-here is how we renew our pastures-we seed straight alfalfa then let quackgrass fill it in. If managed right it is as good a grass for pasture as any out there-mind you i'm a rancher not a farmer so if a cow eats it it's not a weed. We grazed 400 adults on 450 acres of this plus a half section of bush this summer. Except for one 4 hour adventure in my neighbors canola (God I hate cows). Be careful of what your government guts come up with I'd be more inclined to ask a tightwad old rancher in that neck of the woods. As for breeds-hard to beat a good black baldie cow-you can breed her to a billygoat and get a saleable calf-if you need some I know where there are a bunch for sale.