Grazing Cows

[roly]

Hello boys
I am a new comer to farming in canada can any body tell me how many cow calf pairs i could keep on a section seeded with new alphalfer in the Ituna area. This would include growing my own feed.
Also what breed of cattle are populare to buyers.

[pandiana]

Where is Ituna? Stocking rates vary tremendously depended on the area. Genrally they are higher in the northern parts of the country where they might be 10:1 or higher. In the south, short grass areas 50:1 is not uncommon.

Alberta Agriculture puts out some very good books on cow/calf production and forage management. These would be a good investment to familiarize yourself with agriculture practices in this area.

This tends to be a hot topic with lots of bias, but here goes. Breeds that are popular from the conventional buyer perspective are British:Contentental cross. For example, Angus, Hereford, or Shorthorn could be crossed with Simmental, Gelbvieh, Charolais or Limosin. If you keep replacements, maternal lines like Simmental and Gelbvieh are popular because they are selected for milk and mothering, whereas Charolais and Limosin tend to be terminal breeds on calves that will be marketed for pounds. There are many other breeds that can be successfully marketed depending on your objectives.

[kato]

Basic advice we got from the cattle buyers... long bodied wide backed big butted calves will bring the money. There are a lot of ways to combine breeds to get that, but whatever the breed, that is the type of calf that gets a premium...today.

One thing you will learn as time goes by is that things are always changing, and we are always adjusting to the market.

We are all learning here, and will be as long as we are in this business.

As for pasture rates, your neighbours are the best source of information. They know the land in your area, and what does and doesn't work. Climate and soil are as important as the grass type. Find a neighbour who is a real good operator, and ask him lots of questions.

Best of luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of cattle.

[grassfarmer]

roly, As a relative newcomer to Canada myself it helps to know what your background is. Where did you come from and did you run cows before? Are you experienced in growing and grazing alfalfa (i'm not)with it's potential to cause bloat?.

[roly]

Hello Gassfarma

I am from North England and I am in the process of buying a farm in Ituna central Sasks. I have been farming on rented land in a small way with 30 cows and 100 sheep for the past 7 years. I worked on a farm when I was younger and farming has always been in my blood, but I could never afford to buy a farm in England. ASs 50 acre with a house would cost you at the very least £300 - 400,000.00 at least. I have never grazed alfalfa and I believe you can even graze rye in Canada but it is all new to me. A friend of mine introduced me to Agri-ville who lives in Craik Sasks and I thought I would start using it to get some tips, I know I am probably jumping in at the deep end but with a bit good advise I hope I can make it.

Thanks for your feedback,

Rolly.

[kato]

We graze alfalfa/brome mix. The trick is to accustom the cows to the alfalfa when you let them out. We let them out with full stomachs, and make sure it's a dry day. Wet lush alfalfa when they are hungry is a bad combination. Cows are not nearly as prone to bloat as feeder/grassers are, though.

Some fellows we know will use Rumensin boluses in feeders to help cut down on bloat. Alfasure is another new product out that seems to work pretty well, but they need a water supply that can monitored because the alfasure goes in the water.

The gains on this kind of pasture are very good. It works best if you can rotate. (As most pasture does).

[grassfarmer]

Roly,
I'm from SouthWest Scotland so our experience won't be that different - the prairies are more like the East coast of the UK than the west though with the colder drier conditions. "How many cows can I run?" was one of my first questions too but over time I'm thinking on it less. We are used to targeting high stock numbers due to the headage subsidy we got in Europe but here it takes a bit of re-adjusting to as I feel we should seek optimum numbers rather than maximum numbers. I don't know how Ituna will be placed for moisture and grass growth but you will be in amongst plenty cheap feed - I was told by someone very knowledgable that I shouldn't attempt to grow feed as you can always buy it cheaper than you can produce it - given land prices here (Central Alberta) I'm inclined to agree. Since coming here i've moved to a later calving season (mid April onwards) and use an intensive grazing management system to extend the grazing season. If you don't you will not match UK grass production and will be feeding for 7- 8 months of the year. I reckon my good land will carry a cow per 3.5 acres for an 8 month grazing season once we get fertility sorted out and cows downsized a bit. On the cow side I initially bred Angus cows to a Simmental to get female replacements but this land grows them far too big. Now I'm concentrating on straight "British" breeds with an outcross to a terminal sire to produce fattening calves. I don't want to hog this forum but if you are interested in sharing my experiences please email me at "ieaitken@hotmail.com"

[grassfarmer]

Roly if your Rural Municipality in Sask. has an Agricultural Fieldman they are an excellent source of advise on all agricultural matters pertaining to your area.
As far as breeds of cattle go, you certainly need to raise what the market demands, and even more important in my view you need easy calving cattle. Calving ease genetics can be found in each breed....of course I have a bias but I won't share it because each breed has good and bad points.
As for getting advice from the neighbours, you can't go wrong, and you can also get excellent advice from the folks here on Agriville.

[roly]

Thank you for your advice it is a frightening thing moving to a strange country when you are 53 and got very little money is there a market for calves at the moment with the BSC and how much are thay making at say 8 months
old.

[roly]

PS Grassfarmer tried to send you e-mail but it returned
mine is

rolgibson@btinternet.com

[roly]

PS Grassfarmer tried to send you e-mail but it returned
mine is

rolgibson@btinternet.com

[cowman]

roly: I would say grassfarmers 3.5 acres grazing for 8 months is pretty close to right on. I'd be pretty leery of even attempting to graze straight alphalfa. Who needs the headache?
I would suggest you stick pretty much with a black angus cow herd? That is what the market wants...today!
There is no big money in cattle in Canada...never was really! But I believe you might catch the next wave as we get this darned mad cow thing settled.
Welcome to Canada and I hope you enjoy the ride!

[whiteface]

My neighbor grazes straight alfalfa from May 1st to end of October with about 2.5 acres to a pair of beautiful char/sim cows with mostly charolais calves, some red simmental. My point is that I'm green with envy every year looking across my pasture at such a gorgeous herd. I know genetics play a big part but the cattle are fat, sassy, breed on time and always have exceptionally good-looking calves with monster weaning weights in the fall. Yes, I do attribute a good degree of his success to the alfalfa grazing. I know that his cows are simply accustomed to it and he doesn't "pre-treat" them with anything. No creep, big cows, the field looks after them pretty good. He had one dead in the field this spring and every jealous neighbor near him tried to laugh in his face about how the alfalfa grazing had finally caught up to him. One dead in 5 years? Could have been anything that got her. I graze my straight alfalfa hay field after frost and get the weight gains before going into the winter. I find my cows milk heavier than a lot of cows (all breeds) and putting them on that good alfalfa really helps going into the winter. If I had different land, I'd graze it straight just like my neighbor, unfortunatly, a lot of my land is "junk" that needs to be cleaned up by the cows. Herefords are the best foragers around but if you need sheer weight gains, not the ones to go with, better to have them as terminal cross cows or if you like less labor.
Another neigbor has purebred red angus on intensly managed straight orchard grass. I really love orchard grass for cattle, but again, he didn't get as good-looking calves as the alfalfa grown calves UNTIL he turned them all out on the barley stubble to clean up, then they started moving. And speaking of moving, maybe cattle don't like orchard grass as much as I thought or they're just true to their reputation angus, but occasionally the electric fence containing them would go down (or they would put it down!) and off they went...
By comparison, those big white cows accross the street on alfalfa and my whitefaces on native lay around most of the day chewing their cud instead of looking for escape routes.
These of course are only my observations and my opinion is still that there are good and bad in all breeds and in all management situations.
Generally, most people plan on 3-5 acres a pair (even in Ituna, I know people there, and now you Roly, welcome to Canada!) most people want to graze less than 5-10 percent alfalfa, and most people agree that GOOD black (all breeds are black now) ANGUS crossed cattle maintain value over the long term.
Good for you, roly for trying a new venture at 53! Many of us are trying a new venture these days as well, learning to walk all over again as we sort out the industry post BSE! It can be done. My dad told me there is money in everything if we choose to educate ourselves and be the best at whatever we do.
Good luck and welcome again!

[whiteface]

Roly good luck and good for you to take up the challenge of coming to a new country and taking on a new venture . 53 isn't OLD for a farmer in Canada. The average age of farmers here is nearly 60 !!
Hey Cowman, if you throw a shot of Limo into those Black Angus you get one heck of a cross, good mother cows, great calves and top the market !!! ( just couldn't keep silent on that issue any longer !) Roly, we all say our breed is the best, but, just like buying a vehicle, you have to select what you want and what you think will do the best for your operation.
Don't let our breed bias sway your decision, although cowman is right, the black cattle are very much in demand. If I were you I would talk to local cattle buyers, auction markets etc. and get some idea of what is bringing the best prices in your area, then look for cattle privately. There are lots of good cows for sale, and you may as well take your pick of the good ones.

[cswilson]

Well I assume is in the black soil zone of Sask.-here is how we renew our pastures-we seed straight alfalfa then let quackgrass fill it in. If managed right it is as good a grass for pasture as any out there-mind you i'm a rancher not a farmer so if a cow eats it it's not a weed. We grazed 400 adults on 450 acres of this plus a half section of bush this summer. Except for one 4 hour adventure in my neighbors canola (God I hate cows). Be careful of what your government guts come up with I'd be more inclined to ask a tightwad old rancher in that neck of the woods. As for breeds-hard to beat a good black baldie cow-you can breed her to a billygoat and get a saleable calf-if you need some I know where there are a bunch for sale.