let me get this straight

[kpb]

The numbers show that the average calf changes hands four times from birth to slaughter and I have often felt that if producers were able to eliminate all this middle-man activity, their profits would be considerably enhanced. Just by simply retaining ownership as a managment plan, you can increase the profitability of that critter.
Farmers_son, I agree completely with your point about producer-ownership of packing plants but I fear for the future of these plants as long as our federal government will not enact legislation to protect the domestic packing industry. We HAD a domestic industry not that long ago--we cannot expect a domestic industry to survive now against the multi's when the old industry could not. And the economic environment is actually more difficult now than it was then.
Everyone has noble intentions in this area, which I think is fine, but without government support these plants cannot survive.
And rp kaiser, I think you said in a previous thread somewhere that even if the new domestic plants were eventually taken over by the foreign multi's, it would not matter since our packing capacity would increase. I totally disagree with this view--as long as our ability to slaughter our own animals is not controlled by ourselves we will always be on the edge of another disaster.

[kpb]

That was a rather short term thought on my part kbp. Sometimes too many things going in to this head at once, and not enough thought on what comes out.

Packing capacity is crucial in the short term. I would also prefer to see Canadians and even better yet, producers own these plants. Some will fail, and hopefully other Producer initiatives will take over.

My apologies kbp.

[farmers_son]

It absolutely crucial that a wide cross section of producers are able to participate in the ownership of Alberta's and Canada's packing plant industry. And there is no question that government needs to commit to see this happen. Not just more packing capacity but packing capacity owned by average producers like you and I. I am concerned that there are a lot of challenges to be overcome before that will actually happen and the goal of an average producer actually participating further up the beef supply chain is achieved. I have not seen where either the Alberta government or the Federal government is onside. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I have not seen where the ABP is onside. There is a lot of agreement on the need for the average producer to be able to participate in the packing plant side of the industry but I question if we know how to get there.

[cowman]

farmers son: While I laid out a scenario where things could work the fact is it just isn't going to happen?
Cargill and IBP are in the process of expanding to such a degree that they should be able to get all the fats dead?
And this is with the blessing and wholehearted support of the Alberta government and the ABP?
But consider this: The producer doesn't need to own the packing house/feeding complex if the rules were in place where the packer had to offer a fair contract for the calves? Now this would require the government to "regulate" the industry! The packers always claim they are making their money on a slim margin and quite often operate in the red, so they should be receptive to a stable guaranteed profit? No more windfall profits, no more windfall losses?
Of course if they chose not to operate in this type of market, they could always sell out to a producer operated system? Perhaps BIG Cs suggestion of government bridge financing and a surcharge on every animal could be used to buy them out?

[kpb]

cowman, you are correct that the packing industry, if not domestic-based, at least needs to be government regulated. Frankly I see absolutely no signs of this happening and I also don't see any of our so-called industry groups pushing for this, do you?
If all our industry groups, which supposedly represent us, pushed together for government regulation to control the packers I think we have a chance of something happening. But I don't see this taking place--whenever I hear the industry leaders on the radio they're sure not talking about regulating the packing industry. They're always talking about either getting the border open or short-term government support programs. I think farmers_son has it absolutely right when he says that the new plants have to be owned by the producers and have to be protected by the government. But, sadly, I see no sign of this taking place. And for that reason I see little hope of the Canadian packing industry being able to survive on a long-term basis, even if it is able to get off the ground which I think is doubtful.

[kpb]

kpb - Haven't heard your resolution yet at any ABP meetings. This is the time for you to raise your voice with your concerns.

Propose that ABP press the government to regulate.... I'll second your motion as long as it's not to far left.