Liner capacity?

[ivbinconned]

Horse; never have you read anything that I have posted that praised your liberal premier and if you want to start a movement to expose the waste and corruption in Alberta I'm all for it!!

Cakado; I have pointed this out to you before. If you think that Alberta's properity is ONLY the result of the exploration of its resourses then please explain Venezuala and a host of other countries and yes even my province where there are also vast resourses??

[cowman]

Horse: Somehow you are down on the oil industry and I don't know why? You seem to think all the people involved in producing oil and gas in Alberta are overpaid? The fact is this: Any of these people could go to Alaska or Saudi Arabia, or the North Sea and probably make a hell of a lot more...so they aren't overpaid...they are just making the same kind of money(or less) than every other country.It's called supply and demand?
Linda: How have we "earned" this resource? Well let me try to answer that: When oil and gas was first discovered here it was considered a pretty risky business. The eastern bankers/businessmen wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole! It took Alberta entrepreneurs(as well as a lot of Americans) to get out there and turn it into an industry! We should never forget that before the sixties we were a have not province and only through our own efforts did we pull ourselves up by the bootstraps! We got no help from the blood suckers in Ottawa/Toronto?Montreal! Maybe we should all read the story of the little red hen?
On top of that look at what oil and gas is: It is a resource, no different than the land? Our anscestors paid a heavy price to settle this land and turn it into a productive place to live and work? Now I'm not just too sure of your political beliefs on this, but I believe a person should have the right to pass their property onto their offspring? But if you buy into my beliefs then we have a "birth right"
to own this property? So I believe that my mineral rights are mine...bought and paid for by my anscestors? Now that does not mean I should piss them away, (in my view I am the keeper of the land/resources), but without a doubt that should be up to me?
I always get a little uneasy when people start to suggest that we should be more open to sharing our bounty with other provinces! I'm all for sharing but to what end? So they can use that money to keep being decadent and lazy? So they can use that money to subsidize our competition in other industries? Isn't this exactly what has happened in Quebec?
Steven Harper said it very well when he told the old boys down east...Get off your duffs and help yourselves(and incidently God told Job, in the bible)! Welfare without any strings attached is a terrible thing?

[cakadu]

Cowman, your explanation does make some sense. Where I come from on this issue is that we have exploited - not explored - what was here, we are only borrowing the resources that the land has to offer and we should be leaving it in a better state than what we found it.

The land reclamation process after the oil and gas companies have been in is a joke, it's not enforced and with the amount of money that is made from these natural resources, will it ever be taken seriously?

Today of all days, we should be grateful for what we have instead of wanting more and grateful to those that gave their lives so that we could sit back and say we don't have it all.

[ivbinconned]

Using the term "exploit" betrays your bias, sounds like the NDP mentality in my province where we have blocked such development and left it in the ground, scared to death someone might get rich from it and exported our kids instead. The oil and gas industry has UTILIZED” that resource, to the great benefit of all Albertans. Those farms and ranches that have had activity on their land have enjoyed a direct benefit and without such would not be viable. Some even use the funds to invest in Saskatchewan and many other ares of the ecomomy.Thank God.

Cakado your view seems very shallow! I am sure if you tried you would find that the economic spin off impact of the oil and gas sector is far beyond anthing you can imagine, the spin off investments reaching into areas that would surprise even you.

Your view and others seems to be that the only reason for Albertan prosperity is oil and gas. I have asked you to explain Venezuala...with great natural resorces, or how about Japan with little in the way of natural resorces. Come on take a stab at it.

One other thing...
"necessity is the mother of invention" and when the need, real need, for alternate means of propulsion and heat etc. become relevent believe me it will become a reality. Not every thing is doom and gloom.

[cakadu]

I would say that I'm surprised at the judgments and what is assumed to be known about myself or anyone else who does not subscribe to some of the views espoused here or the writings of Mr. Byfield.

All I know for sure is that I see it one way - you see it another and neither of us is wrong. I have said that I understand where you are coming from, I just don't happen to agree with it. Understanding does not mean agreement.

Nuff said.

[cowman]

Linda: I won't try to defend some of the things the Klein government has let the oil companies get away with in regards to the environment. I think you and I are in agreement that lease cleanups/water injection etc. are a scandal...that will probably come back to haunt us!
If I could mention the most important thing the oil and gas industry has given us, beyond the cash, it is this: The ability to realize that we can seize opportunities and have successful businesses without having to rely on a government? Right now there a lot of ex-farmers realizing they can have a very good life without always crying for money from the federal government!
A prime example: Mid forties ex-Saskatchewan farmer who is hauling water from my water hole right now! Started out working for someone else, now he has six trucks working and is busy as a bee! Told me he makes more money in one month than he used to make in a year on his 2100 acre farm!
This is the real "Alberta Advantage"! It lets you be all you can or want to be.

[ivbinconned]

I to know a Calgary man who owns the only Canadian owned oil and gas related business of its kind. All his competition is American owned and they would dearly love to buy him out.
His activities involve commerce world wide today. This would never have happened in saskatchewan!

[Horse]

I just have to ask why couldnt it happen in sask.
I know 3 farmers that picked up here and moved to sask partly to do with land avalibality and I think hoping for the oil co to get drilling there.

[ivbinconned]

horse; for starters read this...
Prairie Centre Policy Institute
Weekly Commentary

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE October 27, 2003

Title: Capital Punishment?

If Saskatchewan is to grow and be prosperous, it must be capable of attracting private investment capital. And you don't have to be an economist to know that it is virtually impossible to attract investment when you keep biting the hand that feeds you.

A healthy private sector and business friendly environment are often the first things the private capital market looks for when allocating their investment dollars. They tend to shy away from Saskatchewan, where investment funds are often allocated by the government rather than the market. Investors don't like it when politics replaces return on investment as the basis for allocating funds. The problem with government intervention is you end up with investment projects that often reduce rather than enhance wealth because resources are wasted on political boondoggles like Spudco, mega bingo, the land titles registry and other such expenditures that seem to be favoured by the current NDP administration.

No where is the effect of government intervention more evident than in the Western Canadian oil patch. For years we've been told that Alberta is wealthy because it has oil and gas. And, as you can see from the attached map, that statement appears to be absolutely true. The oil and gas fields do stop abruptly at the Saskatchewan border. The question is, however, do they stop because: a) that's where the oil and gas ends; or, b) the industry does not want to
invest in Saskatchewan.

Obviously, it's investment and not the resource that ends at the border. In fairness, I must point out there is a difference between the geological formations of the two provinces. As a result, the sweet light crude oil found in Alberta is worth more and costs less to recover than and the heavy crude found in Saskatchewan. But, that is not necessarily the main cause for the cut-off along Alberta's eastern border. According to industry insiders, the real culprit is Saskatchewan's Oil and Gas Conservation Act.

This Act gives the minister responsible absolute power over the oil and gas industry. It states, in part, that the minister has exclusive jurisdiction over all matters pursuant to this act. It also says the minister may reconsider any matter that has been dealt with and rescind, alter, amend, suspend or confirm any decision or order made, approval granted, or permit or license issued. Furthermore, there is no appeal from an order or decision of the minister and all decisions, findings and orders pursuant to this Act are final and conclusive. They are not reviewable in any court of law, and no decision, finding or order of the minister shall be restrained by injunction, prohibition or other proceeding or be removed by certiorari (appeal to a higher court) or otherwise by any court.

Now, Minister Cline has stated he would never use this power and I believe him. But, I'm not a big investor either. It has been widely reported that many of those who do have the capital and desire to invest purposely avoid Saskatchewan. The reasons for this are closely related to the perception that public policy in this province is largely :lriven by a long-standing contempt for capitalists and private sector investment. Success is a dirty word and we don't want any of that here. This anti-business attitude was ignited by the 1933 Regina Manifesto, which created the CCF



along with their now infamous declaration that they would not rest content until capitalism was eradicated. Fuel was added to the fire when the CCF joined with the labor unions to form the NDP. It was in full fury when a Saskatchewan NDP government nationalized the potash industry by expropriating private property. And, this sentiment is not exclusive to New Democrats. Given its political history, no wonder investors are more than a little reluctant to put their money in Saskatchewan.

I read somewhere that any government that destroys capital markets will pay a severe price for their folly. thats Capital Punishment?

AI/an Evans


Allan Evans is a marketing consultant and Business Manager for the Prairie Centre Policy Institute. .Where Do We Go From Here" is a feature service of the Prairie Centre"

[ivbinconned]

After a re-read of Byfields artical it seems we have all missed the point. What he is saying is that our society has, a long time ago ABDICATED our responsability as parents and citizens and given those virtues over to government and now in response to the mess we have created we ask government to do even more. Blind leading the blind!
The definition of insanity is demanding more of the same, and expecting different results.