Beef industry Needs the Alta Alliance

[wd40]

Their Beef program is simply to put
1. $400/ cow in each beef producers pocket. They realize this isn't a solution but a token assistance. And it would happen very fast after next Monday, and in such a way so as to stay off the radar screen of Caise.
2. The other is to ensure that at least one or 2 producer owned packing plants get built ASAP.
3. I believe they also want to limit packer ownership to restore competition and a free enterprise market.

However the rest of their positions were very clear. And they have signed a contract with Albertans with specific issues and dates and will resign if they don't deliver.

The right to recall MLA's and a clear position on NOT prosecuting the gun registry law amongst others.

[cakadu]

WD - you must have misread my earlier post. I want to see the PC's in this province defeated, but at this point in time, there isn't a party that realistically is able to do that. Having said that, I do believe that the tide is turning and that it is not beyond the realm of possibility for that to occur in the next election.

For the record, I do not, have not and will not vote for the Liberal party in a federal election, nor will I be voting PC in the upcoming provincial election. I've pointed out on more than one occasion what I believe to be the folly of the current PC's and their predecessors.

I get it and I understand what some of the sentiments are about wanting a Western Canada, I just don't happen to agree, which I am entitled to do without fear of ridicule or name-calling.

I truly wish that there was a Green Party candidate running in my area, as that would likely be where my vote would go. Given my choices, I don't know who I will vote for, but it will NOT be PC.

What I am curious about is what the payoff is for those advocating Western separation when they don't live in Alberta, therefore don't really have much say in terms of what Alberta does or doesn't do with it's money.

This forum is for an exchange of ideas and comments proferred in a respectful manner and not made personal.

[cakadu]

I will even go one step further to say that I believe in many of the same ideas that you have espoused. I would like to see more fiscal restraint and responsibility, better use of tax dollars that we all pay, less middle management and more people on the ground doing the actual work i.e. in the teaching and the medical professions. I want there to be less homeless and more programs for people trying to get out of the system - a hand up instead of hand outs.

We have all kinds of programs for the various and sundry addictions, pregnancy, foster care, but really nothing once the people are out on their own and trying to make a go of it.

It isn't just oil money where this government makes their money - look at what the VLT's bring in for revenue. Yet, do we see a corresponding rise in the programs available to get people away from gambling?

We have many of the same goals and objectives, it just happens that I don't see separating in order to do it as the most feasible and viable option open to us. Shouldn't we be working together to get rid of the societal ills that should be of concern to us all?

I am not motivated by money, power or things. What I'm interested in is people and helping them to become the best that they can.

Many people go into politics thinking that they will be making a change for the better - that big political vortex sucks them in and spits them out changed and sometimes not for the better.

[ivbinconned]

cakado; You seem to have miss read much of what some of us post as regarding "western separatism". You like to say dismissive things like “I understand your sentiment…but I just don’t agree”! That is very cute to say, but not very constructive and it betrays the fact that you DON’T understand!!

And it begs the question…do you have another plan?

Let me be clear here. I am for ONE Canada where every one is treated with equal respect and importance. I suspect you do too. The question is HOW, do we get there! By going cap in hand and begging to be treated with respect, after we have parked a wasted vote with the green party or the status quo?? What on earth does that accomplish? That just shows how naive we are about how “power” really works.

If you don’t want the west to separate, but want change and respect…VOTE FOR IT! As soon as you do that, the sooner the west will be taken seriously and our concerns will be addressed, instead of ignored, ridiculed and scorned, and reasons to separate will begin to diminish. And your premier won’t get a free ride!!

The Reform movement with all its electoral success had zero impact on the way the Liberals governed because they did the stupid thing and entered the federal arena where they could never be a real threat to the power base. Had they run in the 4 western provinces starting in 87 like some of us advocated, things would be much different today.

So don’t be so scared to be radical. Stop letting the mush headed CBC and David Suzuki crowd do your thinking for you. They hate anybody that makes a dollar more than they do and anybody who appears to think for them selves.

“You have to be critical of whatever is presented to you in any media. Of course, the whole media system and the educational system are designed to drive critical thoughts from your mind. You’re taught to be a passive, obedient follower. And unless you can break out of those habits, you’ll always be a victim of propaganda. But it’s not that hard to break out” Norm Chomshy

[wd40]

cakadu -thankyou for speaking clearly. I'm kinda black and white. In my old age though I have never seen sucess in political change when we protest vote for something "off the wall". I listened to the "Gree PArty" leader for a short time on the radio the other day. And yes he did stand for some good points, BUT.

However the only way to shake Ralph's regime is for us to get out and vote for the best imperfict alternative.

And I see that as only the Alberta Alliance. At least they will let the populace make decisions on very critical issues such as the USA did in their last election. That's enough for me.

[cakadu]

WD, thanks for your explanation. I will go and find the Alberta Alliance on the web and have a good look at what they have to say. I don't feel that any vote is wasted, so long as you are making it on an informed basis. You may feel that the vote is "wasted" but every vote counts and what is important is that people exercise their right to vote.

As for my statement about understanding - it is more than understanding your sentiment, it is understanding what motivates you to want to separate. I should clarify that I don't agree that it is the only alternative, nor do I think it is the best alternative. As to what would be best, it would have to be like anything else in life - negotiated so that all parties involved can get to a win position. Now, win/win does not mean that it is 50/50 by any stretch of the imagination.

I am not a David Suzuki fan by any stretch of the imagination, rather I see him as a publicist and a PR person and not as the scientist that he started out to be. Neither am I a Link Byfield fan and haven't been since the time he was writing for the Alberta Report. I do think he makes some sense, but I don't necessarily agree with everything he has to say either.

What I am is a critical thinker, which is why you will get questions from me so that I understand your viewpoint and can make an informed decision. Your position is that you want respect and will push to separate if you don't get it. What are the underlying interests for your position, ivbinconned? What makes you so interested in what Alberta does/does not do when you don't live here? We all do what we do for a reason, what are your beliefs values and interests in getting Alberta to "wake up"?

I don't think that the PC's will get in with the majority that they have enjoyed in the past - too many people are not happy with what they see in that Party. The time has come for the tide to turn.

[cowman]

I'll be voting Alliance. Don't really buy into everything they say but anything to send a message to Ralph and his gang of racketeers! Actually I consider our present MLA a complete dud who never should have got in!
I like how all these opposition parties can promise the moon, knowing full well they'll never have to deliver? So you get Mason and Taft making promises that are totally unreal and the Alliance promising things like $400 a cow!
I really doubt we'll see much of a change in the next legislature? Good old Redmonton will probably elect a few more NDP/Liberals but I doubt much else will change?
As far as the Green Party goes...maybe they should be called the Watermelon Party?...Green on the outside but red on the inside?

[ivbinconned]

Cakadoo; you ask questions of me but don't answer mine! What is your plan?? And don't tell me you just want to elect better people. That will never correct the STRUCTURAL flaws in our system that I repeatedly show you. You seem to want to only deal with the symptons and not address the cause.

You see "I have been conned" in the past, and understand that most public men and women are driven more by ego than principle, exposing the need for checks on ambition. This is my goal where ever I see it.

Alberta, the province where I was born and raised, but left to seek my fortune in Saskatchewan in 1972, is still of great interest to me as my family are all there including my own kids. Having had the advantage of living outside Alberta but living in a province manipulated by socialist intellectual midgets in government and the media has given me a perspective of Alberta that many Albertans’ don’t see.
The majority of Albertan’s, like Saskatchewanians have been deluded and manipulated into thinking that their success, however measured, is because of government instead of, INSPITE of government.
Why does Alberta interest me so? Because Albertan’s are the only people I see as having the motivation and guts to seek self determination and bring to an end the fraud that is Canada.

A man by the name of Davy Crockett traveled with a band of men hundreds of miles to die at the Alamo. When he got there he was asked “why did you come, this is not your fight!” He answered “it is because if freedom dies here, it is only a matter of time and it will die every where, we must take a stand”

Alberta is being robbed by CON-federation, the natural and earned riches of your province funneled down east to prop of one corrupt federal government after another, and one Quebec government after another!

The youngest provinces propping up the oldest???

This FACT so many of my postings have pointed out. Yet Albertans sit like frogs in the warming frying pan and watch their kin in Saskatchewan struggle, they know the history of the Maritimes…but is there a Crockett among you?

Your farmers get jailed for selling their own wheat…but are there enough Crocket’s among you?

A few years ago in Saskatoon 2500 farmers meet for a rally with the usual array of dignitaries (politicians), protesting the manner of importance given the agriculture sector. But where were the 20,000 to 30,000 Saskatoon Crockett’s who make a living from the spin off of agriculture production?

Edmund burke said; “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”

[grassfarmer]

ivbinconned, I really agree with your analogy of Crockett and the Alamo and how we need to be involved in issues that don't necessarily affect us directly today but may do so in the future. Perhaps you could pack your six-shooters and ride over to my thread entitled "Warning" and lend your support to that issue. The world is a bigger place than Western Canada afterall.

[ivbinconned]

Thanks; I guess I favor spending my limited influence and energy addressing issues close to me. If we can't have influence here at home how can we expect to have influence abroad?

But let me say this, monopoly's are always bad. Capitalism and free enterprise are not. When corporations use there influence with government to regulate there competition, they become a monopoly.

In Canada corporations have had a much freer enviroment to do what ever they please ie the packers!!

I will float an idea here where maybe few will notice and I won't get to bloody. Perhaps the Alberta government should take a page out of the 1970's Sask. NDP play book and give Tyson and Cargil 100 days notice. Limit yourselfs to 15% of the cattle on feed, OR name you price, OR expropriation action will commence.

Now before I slap myself or get cut up let me be clear. I do not advocate government owner ship of packing plants. After they become owned by the government, private Canadian (preferably Prarie) ownership must be assured.

I would suggest this only because I believe that the only reason Americans now own so much Canadian industry is because of the drastic dollar difference that exsisted for the past 30 years.