FW Bulls

[whiteface]

Sorry about that misinformation I posted. Yeah, I did know that grassfarmer, must have had my head in the fog this morning and needed a coffee real bad. My apologies again, thanks for clearing that up. I did consider "fixing" my misprint after I had posted but then figured everyone had sort of had enough of me after that lengthy post and I decided I would humbly apologize only if anyone called me on my screw-up. Good job grassfarmer!
I for sure agree that one has to be careful on how "pure" the genetics will breed true going into the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th generations but that is what makes this a challenging and exciting job to have! Good luck all!
Have a good evening and stay warm!

[greybeard]

I’m not so sure those bulls are F1 ore even F2. I only went there once, but at that time it looked like someone with a good cross-bred herd just didn’t nut a few calves. I think that was their first sale for that type of bull. They made us go around the corner to a separate sale ring. I think they were afraid of pissing off the purebred guys.
The buyers just ate them up. No pedigrees, no birth weights, no extra purebred work. Basically just well fed feedlot bulls. If I remember, prices were around $2800. It was easy to see the Creeches were blown away by the success on promised to have more for ext year. That was before they split up.
Do they supply any pedigree or EPD now?

[greybeard]

greybeard, a lot of red angus/simi bulls were marketed the same way by various producers. Some people were caught up in the red angus half of the bulls and didn't realize that the simi half might just throw more pounds at birth !
I always said we steered good cross bred calves here that were an equal to some of the hybrid bulls at some of the sales in the past few years.

[greybeard]

Don't most commecial herds out there consist of crossbred cattle?
Why would you want to let your bull supplier take most of the advantage of the obvious benefits of hybrid vigor?
I think that we can all agree that if we took our purebred herds and and picked a quality herd sire from a breed with complimentary growth or maternal traits, (whichever we feel we lack), we would grow some hellish calves.
The problem I see, and the problem that has shown up with most of what I call "homesteder breeds" is the predicablity of offspring. A friend of mine mentioned the "homesteader" term himself when describing his Charlais/ Saler halfblood bulls. These bulls were golden colored and thick and he did a good job selling them for 2 whole years. Will the super guppies, super baldies, etc. etc. be around for long, or will the unpredictability of these bulls lead to their early exit from the industry.

Not really looking for a fight, but somewhat amazed by the sales ability of the Creech boys, Soderglen's and so on. My hat is off, but questions remain.

[greybeard]

Hey Whiteface, there was a great board game out there that we used to play when we were kids. You had a bull named after this game that I saw as your premier sire about 6 or 7 years back.
Got any of that Monopoly blood still around?

[whiteface]

4 of the top cows in my herd are direct daughters of him, thanks for asking RP! We haven't heard too much from you lately, bin busy?

[cswilson]

In what ways are most purebred cattle so predictable-colour-pedigree-there's damn few breeders have a herd that's consistent for much more. Most commercial guys that raise bulls for their own use do it because of dissatisfaction with what the seedstock industry had to offer. The carcass deal really cracks me up-most of those guys haven't fed a steer without a halter on it. I look over our grid results and look at the cowherd that produces them and really don't see much in the couintless adds and sale catalogues that is going to help much.

[grassfarmer]

I agree with much of that cswilson, especially the bit about the purebred breeders not having fed a steer that didn't have a halter on it. I've commented before on here that it amazes me how many purebred herds expect to sell bulls having never owned a commercial cow herd or sold calves in their lives. No one could sucessfully do that in the UK - you wouldn't be taken seriously. On the other hand if you only sell calves at weaning the current auction system does not pay you on carcase results it pays you on look and weight of the calves. If that is what commercial cow herd owners are looking for some of the crossbred bulls will do well.
RPK, I had an experience with some calves off the bulls you mention. A batch of excellent commercial red angus cows I bought were bred Max - dispersal cows from a huge herd so the calves were sired in a multi bull setup. Calves were outstanding - I wish I had sold the lot at that stage, the heifers I kept can't live on my system. They have just fallen to pieces, open cows, late calvers, poor weaning weights and grown feet on young cows due to structural defects. I know they are meant to be maternal cattle - but "maternal" to me doesn't mean looking like a holstein. Consistently the worst cows in my herd yet their mothers have bred well to both a pure Simmental and even better to the Luing.
As you say these guys can sure sell bulls.

[grassfarmer]

And don't we all agree that the purebred breeders that can get the buyers to their sales are making money hand over fist.
Was the Calgary Bull Sale much different back in the good old days ? I can remember hearing about ranchers in BC travelling to AB for the Calgary Sale and being winded and dined for several days. For some it was their social life for the entire year !! ( Maybe all the socializing their consitutions could stand for an entire year !!).

[InAHurry]

For those interested, our family has run a commercial herd since the late 1940's and added/took over the registered herd (est. late '60s) when my husband's parents retired. We would like to hear from you regarding what you are looking for in a bull or replacement heifer and how you view one operation over another, private sales vs. public sales, all points relative to thoughts in the above thread or those not touched upon. Please contact us through our site www.southshadowangus.ca or email: dcdelorme@sasktel.net
We run black angus but would like to hear from you even if you use different breeds or are not currently looking for a bull. Unless you actively pursue a specific interest - we won't be "pushing a sale" at you at this time. We want to understand and further our service to today's cow/calf producer and would very much like to hear any and all your thoughts. All correspondence will be kept confidential. Thank you in advance for your imput.