FW Bulls

[cswilson]

I have 'NEVER' bought a halter bull- I 'USED' to buy at test stations. I have found one purebred outfit that runs cattle the way I like and have purchased my last few bulls there. I also have to raise what my customers want and I hate to say it but polled hereford is the kiss of death on a set of baldy hfrs in my neck of the woods. As to buying more bulls I got a few of my little hayfed scrubs hanging around that will go out and breed a bunch of cows next year and for alot of years after that.

[cswilson]

I have sold a lot of bulls over the years, mainly to commercial cattlemen, the majority of whom were repeat customers.
When I look for a bull for my own herd, I like to find a breeder that I can talk to, one that isn't too busy promoting his cattle to 'fancy buyers' to talk to me either at his sale or at a show somewhere.
I try and relate the asking price to what I am getting in the genetics I want. If I don't think I am getting the best bang for my buck, I'll look elsewhere for the same genetics.
I don't agree that every bull seller will always have exactly what I want in a bull.

It is all politics, and salesmanship !!!

[grassfarmer]

Not quite sure what I'm being accused of Whiteface - Bitter about what? The only negative thing I said in this thread was about some Max sired calves I reared - they haven't performed period.
Let me clarify I do two things: run a cowherd in conditions I imagine are close to what cswilson does and also fatten a few yearlings on grass to direct market.
I have not bought bulls to sire the grass fattening cattle because I already have the breed that suits it - Luing. The Max females I mentioned failed to perform in their duty of rearing calves under commercial conditions. Are you suggesting that there are guys selling maternal breed bulls in Alberta that will not produce cows that can live on grass in the summer? Maybe Randy will buy some for the climate controlled cow barn he's telling Cowman about ;O)

[whiteface]

You're not under open attack from me grassfarmer, more likely it was me over reacting and grouping you into one of those complaining bull-buyers-that-cannot-be-pleased-at-all categories. And many of them still can't and refuse to look after what they buy and still make it the purebred guys fault but this kind of buyer would make an excuse for anything. I'm not afraid of insulting this type, they don't do you any favors as a buyer. It wasn't a personal attack on you, grassfarmer. I appreciate your niche market and that you found a breed very well suited for what you want, this is more the point I was trying to make...know what your needs are and you definatly do. I was more trying to make the point that you likely wouldn't shop out of a test center based on the program that you have and the goals you seek to achieve and so I don't think you should either, that would make you a hypocrite, at least that's what I see. I meant to single you out more as one of the few that knew what you were doing rather than not. I'm aware I accused you of being bitter, can't think off the top of my head the exact phrase that would have prompted that comment out of me. I'll find it if you want but I'm not really a scorekeeper so let me bow out of an insensitive remark gracefully and on to the next issue. By the way, my respect for you is heightend that you have enough poise to make me back up what I say without being petty about it. You've kept me honest before also...
and thanks, that's what keeps me sharp and one of the best in the business!

[cowman]

Whiteface: I wonder why you have chosen to raise polled herefords? I mean lets face it there are breeds out there that are more in demand by the commercial cattleman?
Like cswilson says herfords are the "kiss of death" in a commercial herd in most cases. Whether right or wrong the mainstream feedlot buyers just don't want them.
It is always amazing to me just how many of our breeders of Simmental, Charlais and Angus were once Hereford and Shorthorn breeders! I suppose you could say they adapted to the market and provided what the commercial market demanded?

[cowman]

I am sure there are still some areas where herefords are popular, but in my area, I would be very surprised to see anyone running either a horned or polled hereford bull. Most die hard hereford enthusiasts have either gone to charolais or simi on their hereford type cows, and gotten rid of the straight hereford influence and kept the hereford/char or simi cross females.

[whiteface]

There are two ways you could look at this:
One, you can choose the direction you would like to go in and be the best one at it, through perserverance, hard-work, and commitment with follow through on what you have started. I think the very best businesses in the WORLD went this route...
How many times has McDonalds and Microsoft been shot at, they stayed with the plan and outnumber all of us put together now. People call these EMPIRES, jealous people call them multinationals because they can't or won't compete. Those people fall into this category:
The "trendies."
Angus is hot!! Jump on it! Charolais calves are the biggest!!! Jump on it!!
Simmental milk!!! Holy cow!!! Jump!
I need more feed conversion with this drought, dump the Chars and the Simis!!! Fast!!
Thing is if you're trying to be so great at everything (uniformity, consistancy, market demands which change like your underwear) you end up being good at nothing. You're nothing more than a puppet being yanked around by peoples moods, whims, trends and bullshit and they will have ZERO respect for what you do because you have no conviction. And if you're changeing your mind every ten seconds and still trying to have this genectically predictable cowherd, you're so screwed, there's NO way to have that when you've changed your mind eight times and got twelve different breeds and at least four different directions in your herd. Then I have to hear you all bitch about how it doesn't work and blame something like polled herefords. Didn't we cover this one already, I just can't believe how many people can't get this. Just no way in hell it could be any of you all's indecisiveness that causing any of your problems eh?
Really don't matter to me, what your answer is. I was given a chance at polled herefords and found some good ones to work with, (as I could have with ANY breed) then made them even better with focus and direction, since whether you like it or not, every breed has good and bad traits, it's what you do with what you have that makes you a winner or a loser, period. I've changed a whole lot of DIE-HARD simmental AND CHAROLAIS breeders and would do the same with ALL of you out there who has any doubts if not for all your fears to think outside the box and do what the trendsetters tell you to.
The short version of this is that I'm NOT a flake, I'm not a hopeless follower, I DO make my own decisions and have on more than one occasion, simply AMAZED people with what I have been able to create that continues to give results generation after generation. When you have something this good, anyone would be an idiot to give it up. Yes, I know, there ARE idiots out there. I'm not one of them. Thanks for asking, hope you all have a good day!

[cswilson]

Ohh I think someone who calves on grass,uses and sells forage tested bulls,uses south devon bulls is anything but a hopeless follower. Ohh yeah we sell most of our production in the beef on a quality grid also. It's not the breed you raise it's what you do with it-I'd raise polkadot jerseys if they made me money-oops I have some paint horses almost the same thing.

[SASH]

We had herefords the whole time I was growing up. That was back in the late 70's and it seems to me that the cattle were smaller framed and wider back then. I used a hereford bull a few years ago and I had alot of trouble with pinkeye off his calves. Those black baldies did pretty good at the salebarn, though. I guess the problem I have with them now is that they look like a Simmental only without the milk and growth of the Simmental. The last bull I had was a Simm-Angus and I just bought another Simm-Angus this year for breeding my cows next spring. I imagine I may use another hereford in my rotation but he would have to be shorter and stouter with some pigment around the eyes.

[SASH]

whiteface, if you are making money and doing well with herefords, good for you. I say this about anyone who has found a breed or cross breed as their operation demands, that works well for them.
I sense that you are feeling slighted because folks are telling it like it is with the breeds they find work best. I have both red and black limo and they work well for me, but I am sure there are those that will find a lot wrong with them and right with their own choices.
You know what, whenever I walk out in my herd I am pleased with what I see, and if you feel the same, keep on doing what you like to do and more power to you.