Quebec cows?

[cowman]

Now while I might admire ,at a distance, how these Frenchmen have muscled their way into the government purse, I have a rather uneasy feeling about this whole thing?
Once you break the law and defy the government, how do you get that Genie back in the bottle? Why not just rule the damned world?
Now I may not like a lot of the things the government does but I'm not really up for anarchy! I believe these Quebec farmers are walking a very fine line?
I guess it obviously worked for them...but I also notice they are trying to exclude anyone else from getting in on the action?
I wonder if the same sort of thing happened at High River if the farmers would have been treated differently?

[grassfarmer]

ivbinconned, you are very quick to shoot down anyone that doesn't entirely agree with your small spectrum of political views - the comment that "not since the time of kings" has there been a fair return from the marketplace for our produce is garbage. I have many households sitting down to meals of my great grassfed Alberta beef at this moment who were happy to pay me a very fair return for my efforts.

[Horse]

Cowman where is this any different than the nurses or the teachers or the longshoremen going on strike and slowing up or stoping buisiness . God I wish some time before I die I see the farmers of this country get up off thier knees and show thier balls (if they have any).

[ivbinconned]

grassfarmer:Your objection misses completely, mine main point.Plus you put words in my mouth. Now that is small.

Is the pot calling the kettle black...me thinks so.

But please slowly reread my post anyhow with the throw away comment and take note of the quotation marks around the word "free"!!!

[Bez]

I was combining until 0200 - only skimmed the responses - these jumped out at me:

1. "Mine would be that our aim is to receive fair payment for our produce FROM THE MARKETPLACE"

That comment is such a pile of BS. You see, the marketplace cannot give YOU a fair price because it does not deal with you. It deals with the producer. For this to happen, the middleman - the distributor and the processor must be cut out - ain't gonna' happen.

I hate the way this forum is set up - I cannor review the responses as I answer.

Bez

[Bez]

Levinoff - (sp?) is Canadian owned - Montreal based - lots of dairy cull go through there.

Milked out bags of bones - not suitable for burger in my opinion - should NEVER enter the hman food chain.

Bez

[Bez]

Grassfarmer and ivbinconned - if you guys are going to start picking flyshit out of pepper over comments like "times of kings" well that illustrates our overall problem in our industry.

My question - who are the people willing to pay a great price to sit down to a beef dinner - and how come they paid you and not the middleman?

And I think we are gettying off topic - but remember this the consumer is the marketplace and they will NEVER pay the producer - unless it is a farm gate sale.

You the producer will never get your desired value for your product unless you deal direct with the consumer - or you can find a method of magically cutting out the middleman.

Even if you introduce your own middleman - evbentually that middleman will become a problem - so - WHOI has the solution - because I do not.

But maybe the UPA does.

Bez

[Bez]

cowman - a long time ago I was the prez of a political constituency - I learned there that disobedience is sometimes a good thing.

Very often it is the only way to get the attention of those who make decisions. There is a "let them eat cake" attitude in the halls of power and after all atempts at "talk" are done - often nothing is accomplished.

It takes something that makes those controlling the purse strings realize "those guys are serious".

Negotiation - when BOTH sides are serious - works. When only one side is serious - it does not work.

Those folks in Quebec have been at the table as often as anyone else in Canada. To no avail. THAT is why they went to the gates of the packers. Remember my earlier comments about this?

Bez

[Bez]

grassfarmer -

"I still believe we need to try something and peaceful blockading of a Cargill, IBP or XL plant may be the way. "

These comments are spot on - but not one - all three - at the same time! But one must be prepared to withstand the onslaught from the press, the neighbours who do not have the gonads to assist and in the end, the police. Enough people there will prevent the police from being too much of a problem - even they do not relish the thoughts of a scrap and they will usually leave you be provided the masses are well behaved. That is the responsibility of those who organize the blockade.

Besides that, it is tough to clear over 100 tractors and transport trucks from the doors of a building - especially if there are a few hundred round bales placed in strategic locations.

One week and all involved will be listening to the ag leaders.

It is all business, and those who run the bsiness care not about you or your product - they care about the bottom line. Nothing more and nothing less.

Business.

On the other hand we are not considered businessmen and women - we are considered "lifestyle folk" - simple and plain people who do not understand the intricacies of a business operation.

Sometimes I think the "business people" are correct in their thoughts.

Bez

[Bez]

Damn - I said something that even I disagree with!

"That comment is such a pile of BS. You see, the marketplace cannot give YOU a fair price because it does not deal with you. It deals with the producer. For this to happen, the middleman - the distributor and the processor must be cut out - ain't gonna' happen."

What I should have said was -

" That comment is such a pile of BS. You see, the marketplace cannot give YOU a fair price because it does not deal with you. It deals with the PROCESSOR. For this to happen, the middleman - the distributor and the processor must be cut out - ain't gonna' happen.

How does a person edit their post on this forum?

Gotta go - chores are calling.

Bez

[JD4ME]

This is turning into a long thread.As with most of the topics on here I feel youre all right to some degree. The question is implementation of these ideas. The biggest factor is deciding on a personal course of action be it small,selling three finished fats to friends, or large 5000 producers and 1000 tractors. Rememeber that the producers in Quebec face the same problems with enitrely diiferent mindsets and to a government that has a similiar mindset. They are doing what works in their situation and doing it well. I have had to ask my self what am I doing to try and address this ongoing and to my mind growing problem. I have made a game plan and I intend to stick to it, Both on the grain side and cattle side. I will deal with no one and add value to their operation unless they are adding value to mine. If I see that all I am doing is adding dollars to their bottom line without enhanceing my returns they are out. i.e auction marts that don't properly market my animals. Elevator companies that just want handlings on grains but aren't advising me of marketing opportunities that I may miss with my schedule and workload. Be it being part of a value chain or just by making them understand this is a two way relationship I can no longer let dollars leave our operation and support enitire industries without a return if I hope to survive. I have taken some serious looks at a couple of these value added producer owned packing plants over the summer and the concept of each were sound, however in the details of each was the fact that the people behind them were feathering their own nests with producer dollars yet again. If I see a opportunity that returns profits to producers and processors and doesn't siphon off the profits into meber and shareholder"Loans" in order to use our money to make theirs then I will be in with both feet. Keep the good discussion going I'm enjoying it. Thanks

[grassfarmer]

ivbinconned, I value my time too much to bother replying to your childish taunts.
Bez, you outlined what I believe is the answer and it is backed up by JD. Cut out middlemen, do not give your profits away. By realising that every other link in the chain of Ag production, banking, petrochemicals, machinery, processing and retailing are dominated by a handful of huge multinational corporations running monopolies we can make progress. Look for every possible means to trade without using these companies and our future could once again return to our hands. We must campaign constantly to get action from Government to end the scandal of Corporate control. I'm pleased to live in a Western Canada that will not resort to intimidating police and breaking the law to forward our aims. Better to be poor in a democracy than to live in a lawless, gangster ridden country.

[Bez]

Here is how it is dtarting in Ontario - Lanark Landowners Association - as reported in a local paper.

The Humm for December 2004
by Shaun McLaughlin


Rural revolution affects us all

Last Christmas my wife gave me "Citizenship Papers," a collection of essays
by Wendell Berry on rural life and the plight of the rural economy. Berry,
70, is a Kentucky farmer, poet, novelist, essayist, and former teacher. He
is a passionate advocate of agrarianism, which he describes as the only way
to bring prosperity back to farming and rural communities.

He maintains that global corporations and compliant governments abuse land
and the farmers and others dependent on the land. Farmers are abused by
being paid little for their products while having to pay a lot for the
tools and supplies to farm. The land is abused by corporate agriculture
that relies on genetically-modified monocultures and factory farms.

He believes that only those who depend directly on the local environment
for their livelihood (local farmers and loggers) can be true stewards of
the land. He says the only way these stewards can continue is if they can
maintain "economic self-determination"; that is, if they are allowed to
make a living.

What he proposes is "a revolt of local small producers and local consumers
against the global industrialism of the corporations." The agrarian ethic
involves communities of food producers and food buyers supporting each
other. It also encompasses local timber production for local markets.

His complaints and suggestions ring as true in Eastern Ontario as they do
in rural Kentucky. Our federal and provincial governments seem to have a
campaign in place to destroy the rural economy through unneeded and
ill-fitting regulations. There are many examples.

A decade ago, small-scale local egg producers were forced out of business
by a new regulation. It required them to build a grading station, a
separate building with its own power and plumbing. Few producers could
justify the $20,000 investment.

Over the last five years, several small Eastern Ontario abattoirs, such as
the one at Scotch Corners, had to close. Not because of tainted meat. It
was because they couldn't afford the investments required to meet
ever-escalating technical standards. Last year when the BSE scare left
local farmers with cattle they couldn't export, there weren't enough
slaughterhouses still open to process excess cattle for the local market.
Farmers were forced to feed them or sell them at a loss.

Currently, the Ontario government is closing down small sawmills because
some bureaucrats say their piles of sawdust are a pollution threat. The
science is suspect and the tactics unfair. Rather than prove their case,
the bureaucrats insist the operators pay tens of thousands of dollars to
consultants to prove they are clean.

These and other attacks on the rural business put people out of work,
reduce the strength of our local economy and make us more dependent on
spillover from distant economies over which we have no control.

The bureaucrats don't create these regulations in isolation. They take
advice from stakeholder committees that include representatives from big
businesses and business associations. No one truly represents the interests
of the local family farm or small-scale forestry operator.

It is this poisoned environment that caused the formation of the Lanark
Landowners' Association (LLA) over a year ago. They are in-your-face
defenders of the rural economy. While not everyone appreciates their style,
they are fulfilling Berry's vision of a revolt. This fall, the LLA staged
several "food strikes" where produce was sold by farmers directly to
consumers in defiance of various regulations and marketing boards.

On October 29, the LLA barricaded the entrances to the Kemptville offices
of the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) and the Ontario Minister
of Agriculture and Food (OMAF) with hundreds of bales of hay and farm
equipment. MNR and OMAF are sources of many regulations strangling the
rural economy. The police arrived and threatened arrest but eventually
backed down. The LLA then held one of their illegal food sales within sight
of the closed buildings.

On August 26, 100 LLA members lined up to prevent inspectors from the
Ministry of the Environment (MOE) from closing down Lanark Cedar in Ramsay.
The Ministry has since called off the dogs, for now.

Many more such displays of resistance are pending. And, the LLA's "rural
revolution" has now spread into neighbouring counties and is picking up
steam. They have met no credible government opposition. Yet!

Miss Mills outlets that sell feed, hardware, building supplies and farm
machinery get all or a major portion of their business from people who
farm. We need to protect and grow the agricultural sector. We can't just
rely on new bedroom communities to grow the local economy. There is plenty
of evidence that newcomers who work in Ottawa also spend primarily in
Ottawa. When rural people spend, they stay closer to home.

We, Council included, should send protests to Queen's Park and Parliament
Hill every time a useless regulation threatens the rural economy. Be revolting!
Thanks to Chris O'Brien at the Miller's Tale for recommending the book.

Shaun McLaughlin
RR#1 Pakenham
Ontario, Canada, K0A 2X0
613-256-9834

[wd40]

Dang you guys - I've got 'ADD' can't you keep your posts to 3 lines. LOL

[cowman]

Bez: I have to agree with a lot of what you say. The thing about useless regulations?...
While you and I and a whole lot of others might agree on what is "useless and outright silly", others might see it as necessary? A good example of this is everytime I raise the attitude that some new environmental law is ridiculous, I get a small lecture from Emerald or Linda or gwyneplain on these forums! Now this is okay, they are definitely entitled to their opinion, and in fact quite often I might see the errors of my ways!
However I do believe if we have to toe the line to a bunch of standards that some beurocrat dreams up for the "good of society" then everyone should share in that cost?
If I've been watering my cows in the springs for 100 years(And buffalo for centuries)and now the government decides that is no longer acceptable today...then who should pay? It certainly isn't hurting me! But someone in Edmonton seems to suddenly know more than all the people who ever lived here and so things need to change!
Okay...I can see that. The only problem is now I need to spend time and money fixing their problem!
The boy is going through the Environmental Farm plan thing right now...it is driving me crazy...even though we don't have a lot of changes to make! But without a doubt I'm having a lot of trouble with this thing about the springs. An added expense with no return in my opinion.