Quebec cows?

[Bez]

This is not original - and in fact I saw it somewhere else:

Ranching is darned difficult when the pencil running it is 1000 miles from the field.

Bez

[ivbinconned]

Your one thin skinned guy grassfarmer, I concur with most of what you post and only disagreed with your concept of a free and open market and you get all bent out of shape!!

grassfarmer quote: "Better to be poor in a democracy than to live in a lawless, gangster ridden country." What a silly comment.

Ever hear of "adscam"?? etc, etc, etc

You should start a new party. Since the rhinoceros party is gone you could start a new one called the Ostrich Party, with the great logo of the bird with its head down a gopher hole and its wallet being plucked!!

A fitting picture I think.

[kpb]

Bez, Wendell Berry makes for interesting reading and he has put out a pile of books. But, like a lot of other writers of his ilk, he advocates a return to smaller, "simple" agriculture that I feel is totally unrealistic in our world. He thinks that a small mixed farm can work--I don't think so.
After reading all your posts I must confess that I'm not sure exactly what you are advocating. If it is to form a lobby group for the cattlemen, I'm all for that. But if you're talking about violent action, I, for one, am opposed to this. We have a good life here and make a good living. Like you I also started with nothing and built the farm from the ground up--I was raised in the city. We took a pounding during BSE but I think we'll make a very good buck this year and next. So I have no intention of going on some violent crusade.
We earn our whole living from our operation. And for those who think you can't consider this---we bought heifer calves for .86 cents six weeks ago (550 lbs.) for a cost to us of $468. We'll background them cheaply and grass them next summer to 1,000 lbs. I think they'll be, say, .80 next summer at 1,000 lbs. or $800. That gives us a gross return of $332 per animal. Put that over 800 animals and it's not too shabby. And that's if the border doesn't open--what will the price on these calves be in the fall if the border opens?
My point is that I think there is still opportunity to make a good living. If you really want a consistently good living, you need a marketing board which I am also in favor of. But the last time I brought this up there was zero support around here. Marketing boards give producers control over their own futures and mean they can make a good living all the time.
By the way, very interesting posts Bez.

[SASH]

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and though I disagree with the militant attitude of the farmers in Quebec and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fly on the prairies anyway, I do think something has to be done. What I might propose would be something like the Canadian Wheat Board or the Canadian Meat Board if you like that would be responsible for getting cattle producers the best money for their product. I would also think that the technology would be in place to track every animal through the system right to slaughter. If this could be done, perhaps the producer could be rewarded for beef that grades higher. This would allow producers to use the genetics they want to produce top quality beef without being docked because the hide isn't black or whatever the flavour of the day may be at that time. Also, with a marketing unit like this, a producer could direct his animals into a market where he can maximize his profit. For example, the genetics of my herd are set up for grass fed beef. Right now, I can only sell about 30% of my production off my farm. The rest of the animals head to the feedlot where they are presumably grain fed. If I could tap that grass fed market through a marketing board, it would make more money for me and so on. Thoughts anyone?

[greybeard]

Talk of bring Cargill to their knees seems like a bit unlikely to me. They have been around for a very long time, and operate in many different situations. What might work on a small independent plant in Quebec won’t necessarily work on Cargill.
They are very polished at making some think that they are taking care of their “friends”. Have you heard the feedlots selling to the compaining loudly?
I expect they have generations of experience in how to handle being strong armed.
They are also great magpies. They love to go in and pick the bones when someone goes broke. Look what they are doing in the North American fertilizer business.

[Horse]

KPB if you think small womt work where do you expect to pick up those additional calves or are you going to keep 800 cows . Lee Nielson says that most of the cattle they handle at the market are still from 80 cow herds I think you dont see the big picture where will you access those calves when there are no little guys faces to stand on I think the quote once was the little dogs like to crap on the bigest pile.

[kpb]

Horse, I'm not sure I'm standing on any little guy's faces when I buy newly weaned calves in the fall and feed and grass 'em til they're big. Anyways I didn't say that little farms won't exist--they will---but they can not be self-supporting operations. Do you really think you can support yourself on 40 or 80 cows? There's no way unless you have some outside dough or an outside job.
The average cow herd in Alberta is about 40 head. I can assure you that none of those people who have 40 head of cattle are living off their cows. So these people will always be there for me to buy their calves--they don't really care what price they get for their calves since they aren't living off them anyway and it's really a life style decision.
In reality I think you need about 300 cows just to make a living off them and nothing else. The thing is I don't work off the farm and neither does my wife. Our living solely comes from cattle--our own herd and the calves we buy. We cannot make a living from running a small farm as the Wendell Berrys of the world propose and neither can anyone else.
Horse, there is no risk of the small cow man going out of business because his operation is not run as a business since he does not really care if he makes money or not. And, therefore, there's never going to be a shortage of pre-sort calves for me to buy in the fall.

[cowman]

Kpb: I believe what you say is absolutely true.
I would question how you think $332 gross is really a good price? Really doesn't wash if you consider any kind of return on your "real" investment in land, machinery, feed and capital?
But having said that I do believe your return(barring another BSE case) will in all probability far exceed that!
If I was thirty years younger and had unlimited resources I'd be buying every darned animal I could!
Cheap feed, cheap cattle, great expectations of the border opening...looks like opportunity knocking!
When the border does open someone is going to make one hell of a lot of money....it just might be you!

[redhen]

Hi Bez and Cakadu,

I haven't been so enthralled with a message thread since first coming to Agriville!

I have just skimmed over the UPA website, but I couldn't find any membership information. How much does membership in UPA cost? Membership in the National Farmers' Union is $150 for a family membership, and I'd like something to compare that figure with.

Generally, it makes sense that Quebec would be at least a hundred years or so ahead of us in terms of aricultural organisation. They were settled long before Alberta had been discovered, and have given us at least two livestock breeds: The Canadienne Cow and the Canadienne Horse.

I look forward to more news about the UPA, and particularly their controlling ownership of processing plants. That is an example of agricultural "Vertical Integration" at it's very best. We could all benefit from their experiences, I'm sure.

[ivbinconned]

Redhen; In the thread started Oct.21 called "Quebecs approach" you can read about the UPA. Near the end of that thread we delt a bit with membership and premiums. You belong to the UPA if you sell product and you pay a portion of the premium in the ASRA programs.

BUT you do not need to pay your portion of the premium up front...it is just deducted from your support cheque.

The programs have been generous and it has resulted in a healthy turnover of farm enterprises to the younger generation with the average age much lower than in the west.