A valuable lesson?

[cowman]

I'd hauled a load of calves into the presort at Innisfail on Sunday for the Monday morning sale. Anyway I couldn't attend the sale due to other committments but the boy was there. He noticed one weight was a fair bit out of whack and was in a lot of eight calves. As soon as the eight entered the ring he could see none of them were our calves. As soon as possible he got hold of one of the marts owners and told him the problem. They both went out and located the pen the lot had been put in. The pen worker ran them by my son and the mart owner and none of the animals ever belonged to us.
The owner of the auction asked my son if he would consider taking an average weight/price of the other calves we brought in? Which certainly solved a tricky situation and a whole lot of trouble for everyone.
The lesson here is: Always be there when they sell. Don't ever rely on anyone to look after your interests as well as yourself!
I have no doubt this was an honest mistake by one of the workers at the mart. The important thing here was the auction mart owner stepped right up and made things right. In my opinion it is things like this that make this one of the very best auctions in the west? Innisfail Auction Mart owned by the Daines family.

[cowman]

good advice. The owners need to not only be at the sale but provide good info on the animals they are selling. At a bred cow sale in west central AB on Saturday, there were no announcements from the Auction Block as to the calving dates or what breed of bull the cows were bred to. None of the owners spoke up and contributed any info to the perspective buyers.
The prices were average, top lot went for $875 for a pen of black third calvers. ( darn blacks again topping the market !!).
Auction markets pay dearly each year for mistakes made in the sorting pens, but if the owner isn't there to ensure that the animals coming into the ring are the ones on their manifest, they stand to lose big time.

[15444]

Similar thing happened to us twice in different years. Pens being shared and workers not reading the lot description to cut out the animals with yellow tags. It was pretty easy for me to recognize the problem as one of the lots of our calves entered the ring with a few black and red tagged calves amongst them. Manager had a couple workers look through the buyer's lots for our animals based on our descriptions during the sale, and was going to run them through at the end of the sale and get the correct weights. The workers found a few of them, but the manager just cut us a cheque based on the average as well.

The calves that weren't ours actually boosted the average weight of ours by a bit (10 lbs?), so the hassle worked out in our favour in the end anyways. I get pretty irritated with the guys who ship and don't come to see their calves being sold. As far as I am concerned, if you can't be there, ship them the next day/week.

Since then we have marked every animal that goes to the market with either a marking pen or a spray can.

[grassfarmer]

I saw some cattle going through Rimbey today that highlights the need to "tell what you sell". Among the calves a few big yearlings heifers came through - 3 at 1400lb, then 3 more 1380lb. These were going dirt cheap as they looked to be either open heifers or heifers out of a feedlot. Then one of the auctioneers thought to ask if anybody knew about the cattle - read out the name and a lady piped up they were hers. When asked she confirmed they had run with a bull but had not been preg checked. The next few pens were a lot dearer as someone thought they were worth more as possible bred heifers!
It is a weakness of your auctions here that the sellers sit back and visit while their cattle get sold. In the UK the farmer will enter the ring with the cattle or enter the auctioneers box depending on the market setup while their cattle are being sold. I liked to be right there in the ring, to answer questions, show the cattle to best advantage and also to hold up opening the exit door if they weren't making enough money.

[Horse]

Grassfarmer I can just see them holding the sale so you could tell all about your calves it just wont happen unless mabey you could get them to have a 2or3 day sale. As for not listing what dates and bulls most times when that happens they are dealer cows or reruns.

[JD4ME]

I've been sitting back reading this thread with growing disbelief I cannot fathom the attitude, yes its the owners that should be sitting there because what do you want for the 100-1400 dollars every 100 head. A company that does its job?? Why is it everytime we as farmers screw up its costing us money but when we pay others to screw up its ok. I'd be saying to these auction boys thats fine I'll take an average and youre going to forgo your commssion because youre not doing anything to earn it around here.
Not a big fan of auction marts they are just another mouth in the chain that I feel has lost its edge and doesn't return what they are costing. If someone in the chain is not raising the value of your product to at least pay his way. Why are you using them??
Ever stop to figure out how much commision you give away on livestock each year, are you making that back in higher prices.........don't accept poor service this industry can't afford it anymore.

[cowman]

Well personally I like the auction system. I've sold them privately before and did quite well but I always figure its better to have many buyers than just one?
I try not to get all bent out of shape if somebody makes a mistake now and then. These things happen and hey nobodies perfect?
I don't begrudge the $12/head commission. I'd rather pay that voluntarily that the $3 for the ABP and the $1.05 for brand inspection that I am FORCED to pay no matter where I sell them! Especially when I don't believe I recieve one iota of value for that cost? In fact as far as the ABP goes I believe my checkoff dollars go to support an organization that works directly against my best interests.

[farmers_son]

I tend to think the auction mart system is handling fewer and fewer calves. In ten years it might be gone.

Retained ownership, electronic marketing, improved marketing skills on the part of the producers all work to reduce the importance of a pure commodity selling vehicle like the auction marts. The RDID tags have quite a bit of potential to track specific traits back to the actual producer of the calf and it is not reaching too far to suggest that 10 years from now calves will be marketed on the basis of specific traits that the feedlot/packer are looking for.

Proven genetics, not presorts may sell our calves in 10 years. Actually I would expect few weaned calved will sold in the years to come, most will be retained. The days of selling weaned calves are drawing to a close.

Producers are going to sharpening their pencils in the years to come and no doubt many are going to question the value they receive for their auction commission when there are options available for selling that offer the advantage of knowing the sale price before the calves leave the farm.

[JD4ME]

I agree F-S I'm much more likely to take the commsiion I would spend and use it to but a EID reader and the scale/tracker and be able to refine my herd and offer buyers a ten year snapshot at my carcass data. Sattellite sales and internet auctions reach a lot farther. There is still a place for the marts but that place is getting smaller just look at the team sales versus what goes through the ring.

[JD4ME]

sorry I need spell check on this site haha. I meant buy an eid reader.
Thanks
Happy marketing

[JD4ME]

horse, I have been at many auction barns where they would ask from the block if the owner was there when a pen of breds came in the ring to inquire what the cows were bred to etc. I have also sold cows the week after I sold their calves and had the average calf weights as well as breeding info on a note attached to my manifest. The auctioneer read the info just when the cows were coming into the ring and it certainly gained me a few dollars for my time.

[greybeard]

I was told by a very knowledgeable feedlot operator that the average for feeder calves was 2.5 trips thru the auction yards. Both sides of the transaction get charged. His point was, the industry can't afford this cost. The calf is only worth whatever it's worth. No value was added. If value is added, then the more times you put it thru, the more it is worth. The retained ownership guy doesn't have that cost deducted, and long term should reap those benefits. The bigger the volume, the more obvious it becomes.
It also depends on how much you buy into all the arm waving and table slapping down on buyers row. I think they are a bunch of "drama queens" putting on a show for the yokels.

[grassfarmer]

I agree farmers_son that some of the newer ways of selling are a big improvement on selling through the ring. Be careful though because they tend to cream of the better calves in bigger lots. What happened in the UK (largely with fatstock not feeders) was that the buyers prefered to buy on the electronic / sattlelite sales but they based their prices on the poor cattle that were still being sold through the auction ring, the odds and ends and ones and two's. It's another way to fix a lower market price.
Surviving producers certainly will need "improved marketing" skills - the marketing out here in the western fringe is very poor on average. I see guys selling 40 calves and their first pen contains 3 animals. Again it reflects on their general management ability - whether they have a herd or a "gather up" of cows, whether they calf year round, whether they are too lazy to dehorn or castrate bull calves.
I think many producers see marketing as fitting into the "management" side of their operation and we know that most love to centre on "production" not "management" skills.
Horse, If I work for 12 months to produce calves damn straight the auctioneer will take time to read out information on my cattle - that is why I pay for their marketing services. If they don't I'll go elsewhere to sell.

[Horse]

I am sure they will read out a limited speach especialy if they have a garante on the calves but surley you dont expect to have owners telling stories ,it would be like a horse sale where they sell app 40 horses an hour, divide that into 4or6000 head and you see what I mean ,it sounded like you thought you could do the sorting there again no way , Did you ever watch a bull selection comite work, or talk to producers that sold on a pre sort sale and everyone will agree that the sort was not fair.
As for auctioners asking who the owner is lots of time if he took the time to read the manifest he could tell a lot more about the cattle . I have seen cattle sold under the name of the past owner who sold to an agent 6 mo to a yr prior but it dosent look good to sell under the marts name.
Finaly as for comission it wouldnt be so bad if there was just one com but try buying at most marts and the buyers will run you just so it is cheaper in the long run to pay the $5 and let them buy for you unless they have a high bid on some calves then guess who gets those calves, I dont think an agent can operate in the best intrests for both seller and buyer.

[kpb]

If you can put a decent sized lot together of pretty uniform animals I think selling on the TEAM is the best since you get to approve the sale price before they leave your ranch. Also, you don't have to pay freight. But you have to have a good sized lot.
I've bought and sold on the TEAM and, for selling, I like the ability to approve the sale price and I like being able to stay in front of my computor and watch the sale.
But it's even better on the buy side since I can buy a good bunch of weaned calves and know they're all coming from the same place with no auction mart mixing in between. That is worth a lot to me from a health point of view--buying from the pre-sorts, which I also do, is a pure crap shoot in terms of health issues--sometimes it works ok, othertimes not.
So, from a buying point of view, also, I think the TEAM is the best and quite a bit better than an auction market. And I also find that I don't generally pay up for these calves.