Positive Test result in

[pandiana]

One reason to keep the 4D program in effect. There are only so many of the cows left in the system that may have been fed the suspect feed prior to 1997. Keeping the 4D program in effect will certainly encourage producers to have suspect cows put down and tested.

[drill7]

What is the 4D program you mentioned?

[cakadu]

Not to rehash old stuff, and more to refresh my memory, many threads ago grassfarmer didn't you say something to the effect of there not being a clear scientific understanding of how the BSE spread so quickly in the U.K.?

The reason I'm asking is if it was spread through feed, wouldn't it stand to reason that we would be seeing more of these older cattle with symptoms and more positive results?

The more you think you understand it, the more questions there are.

[cakadu]

Not to rehash old stuff, and more to refresh my memory, many threads ago grassfarmer didn't you say something to the effect of there not being a clear scientific understanding of how the BSE spread so quickly in the U.K.?

The reason I'm asking is if it was spread through feed, wouldn't it stand to reason that we would be seeing more of these older cattle with symptoms and more positive results?

The more you think you understand it, the more questions there are.

[cakadu]

drill7 the 4D program is part of the BSE program implemented to deal with downer cows. They must be downers, dead etc. to qualify. The farmer can get the vet to euthanize the cow, and sent the materials in for testing. They government pays the vet and the farmer as well as the rendering truck. This program was implimented because there weren't enough animals being sent for testing.

[cakadu]

Isn't the producer paid $225 per head sent in? Are the vets just paid for their expenses or are they compensated for their time as well?

[cakadu]

My only experience with the 4D program is what I have heard from a neighbour who has had the vet out to euthanize three cows. I don't know how the compensation for the vet is arrived at, but they are paid a fee to euthanize and collect samples. The farmer is paid $225, and I understand the rendering company is paid $75.00 to pick up the animal.
I really doubt if continuing the program would mean a huge cost, and it would get these animals tested which is what will be necessary to maintain our status .

[rkaiser]

$225 is Alberta only. Vet is compensated, but their industry must not like the publicity that ours does, since they don't tell us how much they get. Rendering truck costs 4 cents a pound in our area. That cost is up to the farmer; comes out of his $225 if he chooses. Could also choose to haul her to the bush, or bury her, etc.

Yes, I think the program for 4 d's could continue, but I also believe we are wasting good meat with some of these animals as well. If they are not too bad, and can walk, they should be hauled to a plant that would BSE test, process, and sell the meat.

The current 4D program in Alberta will reach the 2005 goal for survailance in this province by around the end of January 2005. $225 is making it work very well, but even the Vet's will admit, they are taking some cattle that are in pretty good shape. Doc Edge compared the flesh on the cows to his #2 body condition score. I'd call him a 4 - 41/2.

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu, I don't profess to be an expert on BSE but I know someone who is. The science is unclear on BSE but the most likely theory in my mind was expounded by Dr Bob Church in the Alberta Beef magazine last summer. In all likliehood Purdy is closer to the "original" cause of BSE than anyone - environmental factors on top of mineral imbalances created a new "being" - BSE.

However that does not explain the huge #s of cases in the UK - spreading through feed does. When I say feed I mean through POWDERED CALF MILK REPLACER ONLY. Because of the way a calves stomach works in the first 60 hours or so of life to allow absorbtion of colostrum a gateway exists to allow the spread of BSE.
This so fits the spread of the problem we witnessed in the UK it is compelling in my mind. There it was a problem of dairy cattle and the beef x dairy cows many people ran in their herds whereas true beef breeds were relatively unaffected. On our own operation we ran a beef herd of 90 cows but had a sideline for 20 years of rearing bought in 2 week old angus x dairy heifer calves which we sold as open or breds depending on prices. We only reared about 20 of these calves a year but one of them subsequently contracted BSE in a customers herd where our own beef herd never saw a case. That indicates it wasn't from the pellet ration we fed, or from the environmental effects Purdy talks of - it was clearly the milk powder it had in the early hours of it's life.

I hear the Angus herd that was the origin of Canada's first case was looked at from point of view of twins (ie was the BSE cow one and was she fed milk replacer as a result)
This is by far the most plausible cause in my mind - Purdy is on the right track but not if he dismisses all possibility of feed "contamination". Similarily the official version that it is caused by feed contamination doesn't explain how the first cow got BSE.

So I would venture a guess that we won't get many more cases here - whether a UK imported BSE positive cow was rendered into the milk replacer in the 1990s and caused this or whether the cases we are getting are original or "sporadic" cases caused by environmental causes remains to be seen. The more cases we get involving cows that were exposed to milk replacer as calves the more it points to a BSE positive imported cow rendered and recycled through milk replacer.

[grassfarmer]

rkaiser,you can't be referring to the svelte Doc Edge !!!???