Land use for rearing beef.

[cakadu]

I believe that the other side of this is preserving the natural capital that we have and this has to be considered when making planning decisions.

I don't know how well the export timothy market has been doing in the past few years, but it would be subject to a great many factors that affect the rest of farming i.e. drought, frost this fall, poor quality that cannot be put into the export market etc.

Less input costs and not being over capitalized and managing grass better would be one way to increase money in producer pockets.

Grass and permanent cover provide vital conservation and biodiversity functions which should not be overlooked. With changing climate patterns this is something that we have to take into consideration for future sustainability. Even though we have had moisture here in Central Alberta, we are still a long way from having water bodies recharged. The surface water is an indication of what is happening below ground and if there are ponds, sloughs and lakes around you that don't have their normal amount of water, that is a tell-tale sign.

I am having a hard time understanding why folks thing of growing grass is for marginal land only.

[Horse]

How much grass can you grow in a dry yr I would sugest a hell of a lot less than cereal crops on a per ton per acre basis I know I can feed more animals per acre on cereal than on grass.
As for grass on marginal land try seeding into steap hills or in bottom land that is wet late or 10or 20 acre eregular fields and you will soon learn why grass. Not all land is created eaqual.And I sure cant see making payments off cows on 2500to 2800$ per acre land but I cant see grain doing much better , but I can see some one farming 3000 acres but I cant see someONE running 800 cows alone.

[cakadu]

Horse, I think that marginal land should be turned into permanent perennial cover for a number of conservation reasons, not to mention that it isn't cost effective to try and grow annual cereal crops in it.

I just don't know why it is that people think that grass can ONLY be grown on marginal land. I would daresay that the 3000 acres scenario would be pretty tough for only 2 or 3 people to plant and harvest. There is a point of diminishing returns and efficiencies in economies of scale also start to go downward at a certain point.

This is where I believe that we have to start thinking outside of the box and quit thinking we can't do it and start believing we can. It is change and like anything else, change is hard at first and with time it gets a little easier.

[countryguy]

I guess to sum up this topic if you are not returning the manure to your own land and not making the most efficient use of your own grass,and harvesting it as cheap as possible you're not making as much money as you possibly can from your operation.Correct Grassfarmer?

[cswilson]

The best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket-from what i've seen on the average ranchers are better at folding than farmers.

[cowman]

Assuming that a cow/calf need 2.5 acres of grass for the summer( Central Alberta) and the going rate is right around $30 AUM for 5 months, or $150 dollars then the rent is $60 acre? Now you would need to put a little effort and money into maintaining fencing etc. so you might get a return of around $55?
That's not too bad? Probably fairly close to renting grainland?
I know a dairy farmer who has 200 beef cows and they never leave the lot. He feed silage every day and says he gets it done for a lot less than $1/day in the summer! I believe he said his silage cost 1.5 cents/lb. and he fed over 50 lbs. a day/cow...not real sure about these figures? Don't think he really calculated his cost of feeding into that price, as he had to feed the dairy cows anyway.
I will agree with Horse that you can grow one hell of a lot more cereals in a dry year than grass. No way grass will grow like barley in a dry year.

[kpb]

cowman, you've raised a very interesting point. My silage costs me just a hair over 1 cent a wet pound not including land and feeding costs (in the pit). I figure on about 55 lbs. day for a dry cow, and closer to 75 wet pounds for a pair. Even still you could feed a pair over the summer for, say, 75 cents in silage plus feeding costs per day. Times 30 days and you've got $22.50 plus feeding costs (but no fencing or transporation costs). Makes you think doesn't it.

[blackjack]

kbp...just wondering if you have tried feeding cow-calf pairs silage through the summer... been swath grazing three hundred head of cows plus some silage...figure I'm feeding approximately 20 lbs /hd in the swath and 20lbs of silage...since it is my first time at swath grazing greenfeed very happy with results...

[kpb]

blackjack, thx. very much for replying--I have not fed pairs through the summer and, until cowman mentioned it, had never even worked out the numbers. I always assumed that pasture would be cheaper but he got me thinking...based on my numbers maybe pasture isn't cheaper? Now I wonder if the pairs would miss something important by not being on grass?
I have a couple of questions for you. Will you swath graze right up to calving time? How did you figure out the amount of dry stuff per cow per day (what sort of tonnage do you get per acre of swathed material and how does this compare with your silage crop)Do you have much wastage? Why are you feeding silage with your swath grazing?
thx for your time and I'm very interested in your replies.

kpb

[blackjack]

kbp...I live out in the Spruce View area and we ended up with silage crops ave. just under 9 ton/acre this past year...the reason this field ended up in greenfeed was of poor germination so I reseeded late June... as for the yield on the greenfield I figured it to be around 4 ton/acre dry...

...as for feeding I started by what I thought would between 25 to 30 lbs / hd a day... with the up and down weather the cows some days were wasting a bit...since I'm feeding silage to calves...thought I might as well make it so the cows cleaned up the swaths with little waste... its my first time feeding this way so far I'm happy with results... will run out of swaths end of the month...