Land use for rearing beef.

[cakadu]

Horse, I think that marginal land should be turned into permanent perennial cover for a number of conservation reasons, not to mention that it isn't cost effective to try and grow annual cereal crops in it.

I just don't know why it is that people think that grass can ONLY be grown on marginal land. I would daresay that the 3000 acres scenario would be pretty tough for only 2 or 3 people to plant and harvest. There is a point of diminishing returns and efficiencies in economies of scale also start to go downward at a certain point.

This is where I believe that we have to start thinking outside of the box and quit thinking we can't do it and start believing we can. It is change and like anything else, change is hard at first and with time it gets a little easier.

[countryguy]

I guess to sum up this topic if you are not returning the manure to your own land and not making the most efficient use of your own grass,and harvesting it as cheap as possible you're not making as much money as you possibly can from your operation.Correct Grassfarmer?

[cswilson]

The best way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket-from what i've seen on the average ranchers are better at folding than farmers.

[cowman]

Assuming that a cow/calf need 2.5 acres of grass for the summer( Central Alberta) and the going rate is right around $30 AUM for 5 months, or $150 dollars then the rent is $60 acre? Now you would need to put a little effort and money into maintaining fencing etc. so you might get a return of around $55?
That's not too bad? Probably fairly close to renting grainland?
I know a dairy farmer who has 200 beef cows and they never leave the lot. He feed silage every day and says he gets it done for a lot less than $1/day in the summer! I believe he said his silage cost 1.5 cents/lb. and he fed over 50 lbs. a day/cow...not real sure about these figures? Don't think he really calculated his cost of feeding into that price, as he had to feed the dairy cows anyway.
I will agree with Horse that you can grow one hell of a lot more cereals in a dry year than grass. No way grass will grow like barley in a dry year.

[kpb]

cowman, you've raised a very interesting point. My silage costs me just a hair over 1 cent a wet pound not including land and feeding costs (in the pit). I figure on about 55 lbs. day for a dry cow, and closer to 75 wet pounds for a pair. Even still you could feed a pair over the summer for, say, 75 cents in silage plus feeding costs per day. Times 30 days and you've got $22.50 plus feeding costs (but no fencing or transporation costs). Makes you think doesn't it.

[blackjack]

kbp...just wondering if you have tried feeding cow-calf pairs silage through the summer... been swath grazing three hundred head of cows plus some silage...figure I'm feeding approximately 20 lbs /hd in the swath and 20lbs of silage...since it is my first time at swath grazing greenfeed very happy with results...

[kpb]

blackjack, thx. very much for replying--I have not fed pairs through the summer and, until cowman mentioned it, had never even worked out the numbers. I always assumed that pasture would be cheaper but he got me thinking...based on my numbers maybe pasture isn't cheaper? Now I wonder if the pairs would miss something important by not being on grass?
I have a couple of questions for you. Will you swath graze right up to calving time? How did you figure out the amount of dry stuff per cow per day (what sort of tonnage do you get per acre of swathed material and how does this compare with your silage crop)Do you have much wastage? Why are you feeding silage with your swath grazing?
thx for your time and I'm very interested in your replies.

kpb

[blackjack]

kbp...I live out in the Spruce View area and we ended up with silage crops ave. just under 9 ton/acre this past year...the reason this field ended up in greenfeed was of poor germination so I reseeded late June... as for the yield on the greenfield I figured it to be around 4 ton/acre dry...

...as for feeding I started by what I thought would between 25 to 30 lbs / hd a day... with the up and down weather the cows some days were wasting a bit...since I'm feeding silage to calves...thought I might as well make it so the cows cleaned up the swaths with little waste... its my first time feeding this way so far I'm happy with results... will run out of swaths end of the month...

[cswilson]

We graze all our own land plus send quite a few head out to custom graze-it's getting to the point where grazing is pricing itself out of the picture. There are alot of other costs invloved than just your per day head costs-freight,labour etc. It's hard to find a good grazier/stockman to send cattle too. There's too many frustrated farmers or up and coming team ropers out there. The last cattle we sent out of the feedlot were 58 cents per pound of gain not much higher than grass costs if you include 'ALL' costs. I'd gladly send yearlings to an outfit that charges on cost per gain for grass our problem is too many Albertans sending cattle here who will pay anything for grass-lucky Ralph digs deep for you guys. One thing though we charge them postie wages to gather cattle for them lol.

[cswilson]

We graze all our own land plus send quite a few head out to custom graze-it's getting to the point where grazing is pricing itself out of the picture. There are alot of other costs invloved than just your per day head costs-freight,labour etc. It's hard to find a good grazier/stockman to send cattle too. There's too many frustrated farmers or up and coming team ropers out there. The last cattle we sent out of the feedlot were 58 cents per pound of gain not much higher than grass costs if you include 'ALL' costs. I'd gladly send yearlings to an outfit that charges on cost per gain for grass our problem is too many Albertans sending cattle here who will pay anything for grass-lucky Ralph digs deep for you guys. One thing though we charge them postie wages to gather cattle for them lol.

[jensend]

this year, instead of sending cows out we will keep more at home on annual pasture. the outlook for grains is so bad we're further ahead to save the trucking and grazing fees and use our own land. with trucking rates sure to increase due to fuel costs and no sign of grazing fees easing i'll pay myself this year. haven't figured out a profitable way to use the rest of the land though.

[grassfarmer]

Interesting to come back to this thread after a few days and see how it has mutated. I have no experience of sending cattle away to pasture - I was making the case for intensively grazing them at home rather than renting additional pasture or growing feed for them at home.
Cowman, the figures you show of 2.5 acres to summer a cow for 5 months highlights that - The better half of my land produced over 100 Auds per acre this summer so needed only 1.5 acres to maintain that cow calf pair. "Maintain" is the wrong word - my dairy farmer friend looked over my pasture on 1st October and said he would happily have put his milking cows on it the quality was so high. Remember I'm out in the sticks west of Rimbey, not on that high quality/ high price Red Deer land you are on. As the farm responds to better management I feel we could push production far higher - maybe 140-150 AUDs per acre - if I rented out this grazing I would be grossing $140-$150 per acre with virtually no inputs or machinery costs.
kpb, your silage costs just over 1c/lb (75cents/day to feed a cow/calf pair)not including land or feeding costs - so it is basically just the cost of growing and harvesting the crop?
My comparitive cost for grass would be 16 cents per day fertiliser cost plus the cost of fencing - but you would need to have yours fenced too either in fields or corrals?
Why can't we let cows do what they do best - be cows and eat grass?