Zone Alberta

[DNaker]

Here is a question to CFIA. Why not zone Alberta so the rest of Canada can maintain its BSE free status. CFIA was very quick to impose a TB zone around the RMNP area to protect Manitoba's TB free status why not do the same in Alberta. All of the cases so far, I beleif, can be traced back to Alberta. The area I ranch in hasn't had a TB case in 6 years yet we are still zoned. Meaning nearly yearly testing and permits to move animals. Just a thought. Not a serious one though or is it ?

[whiteface]

Careful DNaker or you'll start to sound as selfish and protectionist as some in the U.S. are. Just a guess, are you from Ontario, I sure heard some chirping going on there when this BSE/border thing first started. Only an "easterner" would be willing to drop a "westerner" at the drop of a hat to "save his own skin." Hate to mess you up but I'm fairly convinced this problem is more widespread than anyone would really prefer it to be and the sooner we get a grasp on that and start to work on getting it cleaned up rather than segregating countries/provinces/individuals that should have just shot, shovelled and shut up the better of we'll all be. Just because they've been "found" in Alberta does not necessarily mean it "came" from Alberta. Just like the U.S. isn't "finding" any and we already know for a fact that cattle from Alberta are in the U.S. They just choose not to look, they still have it, they're just still in denial, like you might be. Just my opinion, have a good day and good luck.

[Joe-2]

OH ya,great idea dnaker,just what we need in this industry.More division and finger pointing.Unbelievable!!!!

[farmers_son]

TB is contagious and can quickly spread from animal to animal so quarantine areas are setup to prevent the spread of the disease.

BSE is not contagious from animal to animal like TB or Foot and Mouth. The best means of prevention remains the banning of animal protein being fed to ruminants. Food safety is assured by removal of SRMs. As such there is even no basis in science for stopping trade in beef and live cattle even between countries as long as the required protocols are in place and followed.

[farmers_son]

zoning Alberta is about the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard over the past twenty months of the BSE crisis. What happens when the next animal if there is one, just happened to be born in another Province.
The thought of having to get a permit to move all cattle around in this province is just mind boggling. Obviously it would mean a make work project for the ones that did the permitting.
We would be better served to realize it is an issue world wide, not just an Alberta issue vs. finger pointing and making suggestions that will only serve to drive a wedge between provinces.

[Bruce14]

Although I think this thread started with tongue in cheek and I certainly don't believe in the suggestion as the May 23 supposedly was born at the McCraes near Baldwinton, Sk.

Just as an aside, Alberta Elk producers threw up the same type of barriers to elk from other parts of Canada when CWD was discovered only to drop the ban after the first Alberta case was discovered. Protectionism is alive and all around us however none of it is healthy.

[magpie]

This is a national problem and therefor throwing fences up will get us no where. The more voices heard the better chance to resolve problem.

[remin]

I think we may be missing something here about the "Alberta zone" idea. Before I go into detail, let me state my presuppositions.

BSE is a disease! And it does spread so it is contagious.
I don't think BSE is contagious from cow to cow like TB but it is still contagious in as much as it is transfered from animal to animl albeit one has to die, be cooked and fed to another in order to complete the transfer.
I don't think feeding ruminants to ruminants spreads BSE.
I do think feeding BSE infected ruminants to ruminants spreads BSE.
I don't know where BSE came from, nor do I particularly care, it is here.
I don't like R-Calf, American attitudes about protectionism. The older I get the more anti-American I get.
I don't like American packers in Canada running the Canadian packing industry either for that matter.
I do live in Alberta.
I don't like the idea of the East dropping the West.
I do suspect that if the shoe was on the other foot I probably wouldn't mind dripping the East.
I don't like the idea of carving up Canada's cattle industry into zones but it has helped irradicate problems in the past. E.g. TB, warble fly.
And I don't think all of Canada (or maybe even the US)is going to have the same incidence of BSE because we are still in the very early stages of the spread of BSE. There was a BSE affected cow and she lived somewhere and the disease spreads from there.
I don't think the instance of BSE in Canada is very high yet because it's just beginning and for that reason we need to do something now!
No here's what I'm thinking and what I think we're missing.

There was at least an infected cow to start with. (Where it came from we don't know? England? We've had one documented BSE set of imports and that was in Alberta.)
The infected cow got into the food chain for cows.
Since farmers don't cook their own for feeding to their own cattle, there has to have been a rednering plant and/or feed mill involved.
Even if the infected protein source came from elsewhere else it did come into Alberta at some point. We've had the cows to prove it.

In the early stages of any disease breaking out the first thing done is to contain the disease by creating a zone (quarantine area)until such time as the nature of the disease, the cause, the means of transmission and the agents which transport the means of transmission, etc. are determined. Let's for sake of argument assume we know the disease, it's cause and the means of transmission. What we don't know is who the specific agents/carriers of the means of transmission. There is one obvious fact we are over looking -- all the Canadian cases thus far come from the same geographical zone if you will. There may be others in other parts of Canada and the US but at the present time they remain hypothetical so lets deal with the facts we have. Four cases that are connected ith a particular part of Canada and dare I say a particular part of Alberta.

Now since farmers don't usually cook up their own dead cows and feed them to their cows (Klein seems to think we do?), we need to look to the feed mills. I don't think for a moment that the feed mills are the source of the BSE causing materials but they certainly are the carrying agemts in the distribution of the disease. And so I would like to see some maps with zones -- zones showing where each feed mill in Alberta sells/sends it product. Maybe in this way we can figure out the route which the infected material traveled and then take the "Test them all" approach in that zone.

So here's what I think could be done in that zone in order to irradicate BSE. This procedure is aimed at irradicating BSE, not at building consumer confidence. Eventually it may need to be done in other areas as well where an infected animal got into the cattle food chain. Do things appropriate for this particular disease.
1. Declare Alberta or a part of Alberta a zone. The area where the affected cows show up in.
2. Control the movement out of the zone so that the following steps can be carried out.
3. Test for BSE every animal from that zone which is slaughtered, young and old. Okay skip the ones under thirty months.
4. Do a cull of all older cows in that zone(okay maybe Klein had a good idea, I hate to admit it), BUI TEST EVER LAST ONE OF THEM. So we know what the prevalence of BSE actually is in this zone.
5. Check the marketing zones of all the feed companies in the zone. Especially if they shipped feed outside of the zone. If feed which may have been contaminated went outside of the zone, then start testing for BSE there.

What I'm suggesting here is not intended to replace the current BSE testing program because that surveillance needs to continue.

The idea of creating an Alberta zone for concentrated testing and examination has to come from Alberta. If it comes from the CFOA, we Albertans will cry foul.

We in this zone from which the cases are coming need to accept the fact that medicine tastes bad and is expensive. But we are the ones who are sick "so to speak."

Accept the fact that the packers won't like it, the feed lot operators won't like it, the cattlemen's associations won't like, individual cattleman won't like it, hell I won't like it even though I think it might just be radical enough to work.

But don't worry this idea will not happen, Alberta will never become a zone in order to fight BSE, because Canada's a democracy and everyone has to be treated the same way. Oh and we're tolerant too!

[grassfarmer]

Maybe we should all calm down? All this doubting the science, scaring consumers and proposing mass culls is unnecessary. Doug Horner stated the fact this morning - that we were always likely to get more cases.
Really what has changed in the last 2 days ?? Our young cattle are not going to have BSE - their export either live or in boxes needn't be affected. Our OTM cattle are safe because their specified offals are removed. The Americans can't argue this beef is unsafe because they are using the same process are they not? Politics may dictate the border wont open on March 7th but there is no logical reason for it. We have a system that is working so lets get on with the job.
I find it shameful that the ABP have been absent without trace in the last 24 hours. Surely their role is to be there backing up producers (who have done nothing wrong in all this)and assuring the public that there is nothing to worry about. Are they still too hung up on the border opening being the only solution that this has side-swiped them?

[topper]

Dnaker: I don't really agree with your proposal to zone Alberta but I sure know how you could feel that way after seeing the raw deal some manitoba producers got with the TB zone.

[grefer]

I find it almost humorous, all the gum mashing and hand ringing about those darn Americans and how protectionist they are.I suppose us Canadians are so pure of heart and soul that if the shoe were on the other foot i.e. we were making very good profits,that we would graciously throw the border open.Come on give me a break.

[whiteface]

I say over and over and over again, the value of the dollar dictates what moves where. If the shoe were on the other foot, and the U.S. "had it" and we "didn't" I would still say throw open the border. Their dollar is nearly in the ash can but still "worth more" than ours. Really, how many cattle ever come north, and if they do it's only for a while because sometimes we have feed. Most American cattle can't take our cold, we in Canada are not into makeing jobs the way the Americans are, our land is cheaper and feed more prevalent. The system was created because it works. We raise 'em cheaper and under conditions better suited to make beef, they process them because there is more industry and more "jobs" in the States in which to do it and we "buy back" the finished product in some cases. Cattle go south because they have more "buying power" period not because we're not protectionist, most of us actually are but that doesn't stop commodities from trading. They go where the money is, we all do.

[SASH]

I believe that people are just a bit excited right now because of the two cases in a row. Its a fresh wound and it will heal given a little time. The timing is random. We could go years without ever having a case. As far as zoning Alberta, most of the cattle are in Alberta so you would expect to find more cases there. Sounds just like the R-CALFers saying they've tested all those cows and we've only tested a few, except that when you look at the percentages, we've tested more per capita than they have.

[SASH]

well said SASH. The media is just making a hoopla out of this third cow, and the Premiers musings about a cull didn't help. ABP hasn't said a word have they ?
I am afraid that a lot of sick and downer cows will not be tested after this latest incident. People will just feed them to the coyotes. Jack Daines said it on the news this evening, he had a cow that died and fed her to the coyotes because they had to eat too.

[grassfarmer]

The ABP website is showing the CCA statement made yesterday which is all perfectly sensible - I wouldn't argue with anything said.