Do American Ranchers have any pull?

[cowman]

The recent squealing from south of the border by R-Calf and their buddies, over the proposed March 7 opening of the border, seems to be very loud?
However we keep hearing from various USA government agencies that March 7, is a done deal.
Do you think the American cattleman will have enough pull to keep it closed, or are they expendable in the big picture? I mean how many votes do they represent? And more importantly how many dollars?
Perhaps getting a missile defence shield in place or banning cheap generic drugs from Canada is more important than keeping a bunch of dumb cowboys happy?
I suspect George W has his ducks all lined up in a row?But once again, I would suggest if you have a child interested in a career in the Canadian armed forces, do everything in your power to convince him/her to consider it?

[FRENCHMAN]

All it takes is one judge to see their (r-calf )way..

[blackjack]

...r-calf kind of reminds me of the notorious Jesse James gang and thier fight against the railroad...well r-calf might be riding high today until the US get homegrown case of BSE... we all know what happened to the Jame gang...

[SASH]

I'm of the mind that somebody should put a slander suit agaist Bullard for all the lies that he's been spreading about Canadian Beef. I wonder how the membership would feel about their money defending Bullard's big mouth. I also believe that money talks in the States. The Packers and the AMI have alot more pull than a few Montana ranchers. However, I heard this morning that the Canadian government is now admitting that the feed ban may have been violated. If that's true, all bets are off. The upside of that would be that if the government didn't enforce the ban, then they could be held liable for this whole mess which should make it easier to get government funds to build our packing plants. Just speculating.

[rodb]

Just got an email that came from the US about concerns of Australians visiting Alberta and then travelling to US. R-Calf has spread so much misinformation that you would think we are dealing with Foot and Mouth.

The email came from a Congreesman's office in Washington D.C. I have replied and sent addresses of web pages that supply information about the diseasebut I don't expect a reply.

Dispite all the assurances we are still facing an uphill battle due to ignorance of the masses and their fears.

[grassfarmer]

SASH, I've been told on good authority that neither the US or Canada were enforcing the feed ban prior to the first case in Canada. In theory the Governments should be liable - but to prove liability you would need to prove that feed was the source of BSE - which hasn't been done. I know no feed plant or Government in Europe has been found liable over BSE - it has all landed firmly at the feet of producers which is most unfair.

[cowman]

No matter how much we think R-CALF is misguided we should realize they do represent a lot of grassroots people? And apparently growing all the time?
I do think it is helpful to point out some of their inconsistant ideas and to also try to get the idea across to their members that we are not the boogeyman here? We get up and feed our cows, fight the weather, and the beef combines, and the damned government...just like they do! We all have hopes and dreams and try to feed our families and keep the wolf from the door...just like they do!
The rancher in Montana needs to realize the rancher in Alberta is the same person, with one hell of a lot more in common than some city slicker in Ottawa or Washington!
It is my personal opinion that we need to move closer together rather than further apart? That border needs to become no more than a line on a map. We should be working together to promote trade and commerce rather than putting up silly fences to keep each other out? If R-CALF truly doubts the safety of our meat then we should do whatever it takes to convince them it is safe? If their concerns are about their markets and BSE is just a convenient excuse to protect that market, then we need to show them a solution of how we can be part of that market without destroying it? One way would be to show them in an open market the multi-nationals wouldn't be able to cherry pick cattle and use that tactic to depress prices for all our cattle?

[farmers_son]

Cowman: Good comments. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say “If R-CALF truly doubts the safety of our meat….” I don’t think they do. Everyone knows it is about protectionism not food safety. If it were not BSE it would be something else.

I think R-Calf is much more an American problem than a Canadian problem. They are only a Canadian problem is as much as they have the potential to undermine U.S. confidence in beef and the U.S. is a very important market for Canadian producers. R-Calf has the potential to hurt the U.S. beef industry more than the Canadian industry.

I might go so far as to say that R-Calf is helping to make sure the border opens on March 7. Why would I say that? Because the U.S. government cannot allow R-Calf to gain any more credibility than they already received when the USDA did not fight the R-Calf injunction. This U.S. administration needs to marginalize R-Calf in the eyes of producers and consumers.

Yes R-Calf represents some U.S. producers but I do not believe they represent the majority. Most U.S. producers realize that R-Calf is hurting the best interests of the U.S. beef industry by raising concerns about the safety of beef.

I agree with your comments regarding the border. Still the reality is that international borders can and will be closed to live cattle in the future. Opening the border to live cattle can only be viewed as a short term fix. Cattle should only cross international borders in a box.

[WRAPper]

I've sat and watched this whole mess and wondered what drives this R-calf group, it's to me a combination of things, protectionism, the lack of understanding by a group of individuals of anything to do with agriculture outside their own sphere of operation,the attitude of superiority(often false) that pervades alot of the people in that group, and finally the same thing that drives alot of people like this, fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of losing what they hold dear, fear of not being the best, fear of what they cannot control.
Its a lot easier to hate and be ignorant than it is to take time to learn and understand. There's a lesson in the way R-calf acts that we all likely should be undestanding and bringing back to our own operations, about changing times and a changing world and how we either understand and change with it (if we can) or we lock ourselves behing walls of ignorance and hate and let the world pass us by and leave us behing. I believe that this is what the members of R-calf will awake too, they will find that they have fought a battle based on their own fear and inability to accept and adjust and the industry and the world will pass them by to their own loss.

[rkaiser]

Well said all. I don't think the leaders of Rcalf are total dummies either, however the stand they have taken concerning BSE is extremely hard to understand.

Is is simply about fear as WRApper says?
How could it be about anything else? More beef goes south in a box than ever before, cattle prices in the States have been more about supply and demand than any trade between us and them. Excepting possible prices for culls. Is it all about a ra ra American patriotism thing?

Maybe the packer influenced USDA has simply seen Rcalf as a tool, a scapegoat for blame, and has pushed them along with simple human mind games. Poke a stick at them once in a while if they become too complacent. Let a story or two out in the media about contamination, transmission, or hoards of cattle waiting to cross the border. Was it not the USDA that said 2 million head would cross the line in 2005 when the border opened?

Yes cowman we would all be better off if we attempted to suggest our similarities to Montana cattlemen rather than our differences. Let's try that angle with the boys on ranchers bull session for a while.

Not that anthing any one of us can do will change the world, but it sure gives us all something to write about here on Agriville.

I hope you are not coming to burn my barn down tonight kbp for not agreeing with you.

Have a good one.
Randy

[SASH]

For those of you who subscribe to the Canadian Cattlemen magazine. they had an article back in about March 2003 about R-CALF and what tactics they were taking to try and close the border to Canadian beef. This BSE has been a godsend for them and they will milk it for everything it's worth.

[cowman]

Personally I don't blame the old cowboys of R-CALF for trying to protect their industry. However I question some of their tactics as not exactly being overly smart?...Like standing on a stage with a bunch of anti meat wingdings! Or painting themselves into a corner by saying if you have one case of mad cow then the whole damned industry is diseased! I suspect both of those blunders will come back to haunt them?
I have always found that any organization that is too rabid and radical usually self destructs in the end whether it be a political movement, a religion or a special interest group.
And in a way I find that disheartening, because R-CALF could have been a good grassroots cow/calf group that advanced a lot of issues the mainstream cattle organizations weren't dealing with?
At one time there was talk of a Canadian cow/calf organization because people weren't happy with how ABP and the CCA were working! Our own little R-CALF?

[kpb]

rkaiser, sorry I didn't read your post 'til today, things are so g-d busy around here right now. It's so mucky around here I don't think I could get out to burn down anyone's barn even if I wanted to, which I don't. As far as our discussion is concerned, I don't expect everyone to agree with me and goodness knows I don't even have all the questions let alone the answers. I'm just trying to push things along to get people thinking about some different ways out of our mess. And just trying to get along.
I respect your point of view, agree with you sometimes and always read what you have to say even if I don't agree. That's what this is all about, right?

[oxbow]

Cattlemen in the US have no political juice simply because of quantity. GW Bush attended the NCBA convention a couple years back, and NCBA clearly supportes Bush. But NCBA and Rcalf have opposite positions (with NCBA having more members.

[cowman]

I'm no expert on the NCBA but I expect they are a lot like the CCA in their desire to see trade and common sense prevail. However having said that, I will admit sometimes they seem to be working at odds with the needs of the cattle producer? They seem to be slanted towards the feedlots and the packers?
BIG C has an agenda that I believe supports the cattle producer? And by cattle producer I mean the cow/calf guy not the middlemen. The only guy "producing" cattle is the cow/calf guy...the feedlots are just adding value and so is the packer.In reality we could get along without them...if we had to? I really don't see where BIG C has said anything really radical despite some ABP delegates labelling them "socialists"! It would be helpful if R-CALF could tone down the rhetoric and "spin"? Surely they can stand up for their members without condemning the USDA, all Canadian beef, and getting cuddly with the animal rights nuts? All this does is assure that the consumer will lose confidence in the safety of the beef supply? Seems to me their leaders need to not shoot from the lip so much and think beyond simplistic solutions?