Rancher.net

[WoolyBear]

Wow....... took a trip over to the Dark side to see what all the fuss was about. There has to be BSE south of the 49th. Some of those "cowboys" are dang scarey!

I wonder if they truly believe all the tripe that they talk about?

[whiteface]

Yes they do truly believe what they say...
They would just have to the way some of them rufuse to listen to any reason or "facts." Have a good day all!

[SASH]

I spend my time over their mostly on days when I have spare time and am looking for a scrap. I'm pretty sure that alot of the R-CALFers over there just spend all their days listening to Bullard and talking about R-CALF stuff at the coffee shop. I don't think they get much outside exposure. I think its important as Canadians to keep showing them the truth just so that they have something to think about outside of their little R-CALF commune.

[kato]

Scrap's the word! Sometimes it's fun, but sometimes it's just plain nasty.

We do however keep pounding away in the hopes that someone reasonable is listening. There are some good people over there. There are also some who are just plain obstinate.

There are Fightless Fridays that are pretty good too. Even the professional scrappers need a break sometimes. LOL

[blackjack]

...for you Canadians that know how debate the Americans... I thankyou...

[BigMuddyrancher]

To SASH ,Kato and Whiteface, I think sometimes posting at Ranchers.net is one of those dirty jobs but somebody has to do it, some times. Yes there are alot of good people that I enjoy posting to and a few that I enjoy harassing but there are some that i will refuse to get dragged down to their level and I hope it doesn't hurt the forum as it can be a fun release in stressful times but also can cause stress if we let it. Fight the good fight and lets give'm Hell.

[BigMuddyrancher]

interestingly, I was chatting with an acquaintance that had just returned from a vacation in the US. He attended some ag functions and answered a lot of questions about the BSE situation in Canada.
He said that the average comment was to the effect that they could not understand what all the hoopla was about only three or four cases of BSE, and they didn't know why the border wasn't open !! I guess that tells me that R-Calf's views aren't shared by everyone in the livestock industry south of the border.

[cowman]

I suspect R-CALF supporters are mostly in the northern states where they had to watch cheap Canadian cattle roll by their gates to the feedlots and packers, that wanted to beat down the price for their calves and cull cattle? They couldn't understand how Canada could raise cattle any cheaper than they did! And the fact is Canada couldn't! A totally ridiculous monetary exchange was our advantage! A 63 cent dollar was our ONLY advantage.
Here is the problem to our continent having a truly integrated economy...government policy and interference with commerce! We need one currency, one taxation system, one set of inspection and rules! Have a "North American dollar", a "North American federal tax system", a "North American department of Agriculture"?
The border between Canada and the USA is nothing more than an impediment to commerce. If you've ever crossed lately and seen the trucks lined up for miles you'll know what I mean! Can our people really afford this silly government garbage?

[SASH]

cowman wrote:

The border between Canada and the USA is nothing more than an impediment to commerce. If you've ever crossed lately and seen the trucks lined up for miles you'll know what I mean! Can our people really afford this silly government garbage?

I agree. While I consider myself to be a patriotic Canadian. More and more I seem to find myself on the opposing side of what is being done by the Canadian government. Homosexual Marriage (against it), Wasteful public healthcare (against it ), The socialist welfare system (against it), Legalization of marijuana (against it, The Iraq war (for it although I would have a hard time with sending my sons to fight it). My values are far more conservative than what the government's are and it seems that I agree more and more with how the US deals with things although there are always radicals in every group. I think opening the border would be a good thing. Then I could stand with my neighbors in the western US and fight this elitist,anything goes attitude of the eastern Canadians.

[kato]

I watched the Fifth Estate the other night. (Ya, I know, eastern liberal socialist CBC .. but that's beside the point)

It was a story on the hard line conservatives who are prevalent in the U.S. right now. Some of these people really worry me, and I don't mind saying it. They are agressive, totally unmoving in their opinions no matter what argument they come across, and of the "I am right, so you are wrong" mindset, with those who oppose their opinions being degraded and put down. One woman looked the reporter, a Canadian right in the eye and told him he was wrong when he said Canada didn't send troops to Vietnam. She said he was wrong! He didn't know what he was talking about! He lived here at the time for Pete's sake, so where did she get off telling him she knew more about Canada than he did? She absolutly refused to accept that he might know something that didn't agree with her view of things, or the possibility that she could be wrong. This same woman also has a very large following of people in the States who believe everything she says. Spooky.

If this is the direction the United States is going, I personally don't want any part of it. Hardliners of any persuasion are dangerous in positions of power.

They have a for me or against me attitude, with no room for open dialogue or discussion. If you don't agree with them, you are an idiot, and that's all there is to it.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather stick with what we've got. No system is perfect, but at least our system recognizes that it is possible to disagree with each other without it getting personal.

[oxbow]

Kato, the instance you cite is a perfectly clear diversion. I'm sure you can imagine finding a good interview to paint an entire group in what ever way you want.

Its certainly true the left is quite dismissive of opposing views as simple or stupid.

Cowman; the US presently enjoys governmental dominance by those that believes solutions eminate from private people - give people enough freedom and they'll best make theyr own prosperity. BUTTTT let me caution you we have an enormous group of citizens that can't imagine solutions or prosperity coming from anyplace other than "the government." RCALF is one of these intellectually vacuous leftist groups that seeks to manipulate economic issues with politics. When we have decet folks in cow country falling for leftist intervention, imagine the leftist following in the great urban areas.

You're soooo right about forming a single economic block with a single currency - I guess the Euros agree with you.

For anyone viewing Ranchers Net, you'll see what you want to see. I'm sure a majority of ranchers support opening the border, but there is a vocal gtoup that never wanted an open border and are all too pleased to exploit bse as a trade barrier.

As for anyone that is fearful about US conservatives, relax. Conservativism maintains people are the proper source for solutions to advance prosperity as opposed to governmental solutions advocated by liberals. It was the Klinton administration that employed the "scorched earth" policy of destroying dissenters. Ya see, people always see what they want to see.

[cowman]

Well oxbow, I certainly agree with the idea and ideology of people creating their own prosperity. You might find it refreshing that a lot of people in Alberta think that way...especially if you travel outside the capital "Redmonton"!
The best thing the government can do is get the hell out of the way, in my humble opinion.
To my way of thinking, the federal governments role should be limited to the basic infrastructure and national defence! Unfortunately, here in Canada, they do a really poor job on both of those but they are hell on wheels at getting their noses into everything else!
Canada is truly the Nanny state with the government trying to control you and coddle you from cradle to grave. It is a little better in Alberta because we took a different route and have become more American than the Americans! Unfortunately our sister provinces have not seen the light and continue to elect governments of a decidely "pink" variety! In fact our own government here in Alberta are a bunch of spendthrifts but we had about 40 years of good accountable government before they came in. The Conservative party of Alberta has had the good luck to inherit a system of provincial rights from the previous Social Credit government. They haven't done much to protect that system however!

[oxbow]

I like the term "nanny state" I just wish it didn't describe the US also. I'm not at all surprised to find conservatives in the provinces as anyone but the most rugged individualists couldn't hang with the harsh environment in the Canadian bush.

I don't doubt Alberta is out Americaning the US, most of Asia is as well as a bunch of South America. I really am intrigued by Canadian ag innovations - like the energy free waterers up there or the Forester bale movers. Its clear plenty of guys are handy in the shop.

You're right about provincial rights - we call it states rights or federalism. Either way, the US federal government is constantly seizing more and more local power despite a constitutional limit on federal power.
In my opinion, if both sides of the border could return power to the local level, the border would be less restrictive to trade. If you really think about it, the only purpose for the 49th is to tell us which way to send our taxes. You may know, every so often California will come up with a scheme to exclude products from the other states. Ofcourse there is an interstate commerace clause in the constitution that prohibits their tricks. Eventually, NAFTA will need to be strengthened or modified so that trade is not subjected to whims of lawyers. I think a single currency would certainly enhance trade and prosperity on both sides of the border, but the US liberals are afraid of trade and Bush has been somewhat hostile towards Canada. A single currency is still a good idea.

[cowman]

oxbow:I've got to agree on that one currency deal and to my way of thinking they should just get rid of all those time consuming border crossings. Unfortunately our federal government has a bad habit of letting pretty well every low life in the world into this country and that gets you Americans a little nervous! Personally I believe we also need one big immigration type department that gets these terrorists and criminals stopped before they get into North America! Then you Americans wouldn't need to feel threatened by a bunch of psycho terrorists crossing the border! Have you ever been to a border crossing lately? It is absolutely insane! Trucks lined up for miles waiting to cross...you can almost hear the dollars being lost! Our country is really dropping the ball here by trying to be politically correct and wanting to be viewed as the safe haven for every piece of garbage in the world!
I've always said I've got one hell of a lot more in common with the farmer/rancher in the US than I have with the city slickers in Toronto or Ottawa.

[cswilson]

Cowman that is so cute when Alberta is the biggest nanny province of all -after ranching next to the so called bastion of free enterprise for my entire life-it's pretty plain you receive more government aid than any so called socialist rancher in Sask. ever has. That's my hilight of the year when I go buy bulls and watch you'Texan's without accents' try and explain how 'it's not a subsidy-it's a program'. The old brand shack at Bow Slope get's pretty lively sometime. Maybe ease off on the pot calling the kettle black as I think every rancher in Canada has taken a good long suck on the government's tit the last year or so.