Corporate question

[rkaiser]

It makes me chuckle SAH when you talk of reversed roles. Would I offer to bail out Cargil or Tyson if they lost money? We have seen what happened in America when profit margins even dropped a little bit. CLOSED the plant.
We are talking a spread of hundreds of dollars in Canada. Cargil and Tyson would close their plants within minutes of loosing even close to that amount of money on a carcass.

What are your thoughts on the limitation bill that you have posted on this site SASH. Are you just looking for more ways to prove your point about your knowledge of business.

By the way, I don't go to any household in Calgary or any business for that manner, I have a very ethical partnership with a packer and a marketing team. Not only does this marketing team sell to restaurants, but they are linked to 3 meat shops with more on the way. This system started pre BSE. Hard to beleive there could be good business in the anachaic price world we lived in these last 2 years, is there?

[rkaiser]

rkaiser, you obviously have taken advantage of an opportunity to add value to your on farm product, and I am sure you will agree that having developed this marketing option has been a financial advantage to you since BSE vs just selling your live cattle to a market .
Do you think that many of the'on farm beef sales or truck load sale' initiatives that have come on stream since BSE will continue long term ?

[rkaiser]

Emerald,
I would say that those who got their feet wet, and have had some succes will continue. Especially if they are as disgruntled as I am with the current conventional market.

If we can get a bunch of these producer owned packing facilities up and running, most truckload boys will probably turn to them

Just my thoughts.

[SASH]

rkaiser:
Perhaps if the producers had jumped in and helped the Canadian packers back when they were having trouble or bought them out and started running them as indepents when they were all closing in the eighties, we wouldn't be in this jam now. From what I understand, the packers in the states have been losing money for well over a year. I, personally believe that the plant shut downs are being used as leverage to pry the border open but God forbid, you should think any thing the packers do might help you out. I still contend that what the packers were doing in Canada was just business. For example, the SAAN chain is in bankruptcy protection right now. Why don't you head on down there and tell them that you want to buy their products at full price instead of taking advantage of them in this time of need for them? At least then you'll know that you aren't taking advantage of them like those nasty old packers took advantage of you. Then you can boycott Wal-Mart and Home Depot because they run a better business than SAAN. I'd be interested to know who in your youth told you that life is totally fair and everyone you deal with will always have your best interest at heart. You might want to think about giving them a call and telling them that you have found that this is not necessarily true. Is it fair that producers are down and out and prices are low. No. But it is an issue of supply and demand. Before you start telling me about the market being unfair because there's not enough buyers, explain to me why Nortel was trading at $120 in 2001 and is now trading around 5 bucks. Or if you don't like that example or want to make some remark about their ethics, lets talk about Bombardier which is worth about 10% of what it was in 2002. It has been listed in the ethical funds since ethical funds were invented. The people who were invested in these lost scads of money just like the cattle industry but you don't hear them crying in their beer because they knew there was a risk going in. Every career that you have is going to have its ups and downs. You chose to be a cattleman and I'm assuming you knew that there would be risks in that when you got into it. You guys seem to take this thing with the packers so personal. No one producer is big enough to even register on their radar screen. Its just business.

[grassfarmer]

So what was the point of posting the later thread about the packers in the US being found guilty of price fixing? Did you forget you were trying to convince us that the packers have done no wrong? For that matter why were you proposing a marketing board for beef - if everything is working great at present?
This is why I've never posted on Ranchers.net - a lot of the participants argue and trade petty insults for the sake of it rather than having a genuine concern and belief in what they write.
My opinion.

[rkaiser]

The good old packers are shutting down to help open the border for me SASH?

Who said I want the border open.

I'd rather see every pound of beef go south in a box even if it is the Multinationals that do it.

I won't even bother to respond to the rest of your lecture............

[rkaiser]

rkaiser, I agree with you. The folks in this area that have been marketing inspected beef either from home or truck load sales are limited to the number of animals they can get slaughtered ( 2 per week at the nearest abbatoir).I know that they have really been pushing for ranchers own to get off the ground and have every intention of keeping on marketing their beef.
The next month is going to be a very interesting one in the beef business !!

[cowman]

So what is the story on Ranchers Own? Have they started construction? Bought some land? Have they got all their financing in place?

[cowman]

They have the land in the Acheson Industrial park near Spruce Grove and they have a significant amount of funding in place. My understanding is that a lot of the local producers are getting on board so they have a market for their cull cows.
Cost per share is $5000.
$500.00 upon signing, and the remainder over a period of time or paid for with cattle shipped to the plant.

I think it is one of the few that really will get on stream within a year or so.

[grassfarmer]

I'd like to see them succeed emrald - they have a $500 deposit of mine. Pre Christmas I read they had sold 600 memberships but they need 6000 to raise the funds needed. The progress report on the various plans in the Cattlemen magazine makes depressing reading - so many are a long way from getting the funds needed.

[grassfarmer]

ranchers own had a booth at last weeks Agricultural Serviced Board Convention in Red Deer. During the time I was there no-one was at the booth, so maybe they just decided to put material out for people to take home.
I do think that the cost and the opportunity to pay the amount over a period of time makes it a positive opportunity for producers. Lord knows that there are enough producers in west central AB to get involved and get the thing built.

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I agree with you that the status of the proposed domestic packing plants makes for tough reading. Does anyone know what is going on with the proposed Sunterra plant near Calgary? I heard that Mountainview County had given approval but that was before Christmas and I've heard nothing since then. A lot of these plants cannot raise the funds to being construction--there's just no easy way of saying it other than that. The fact is that producers will not invest to a great enough degree and there are no other investors stepping forward because of the risk involved. As I said last fall, these plants cannot attract the type of outside investment needed for construction because they do not offer a good enough risk-reward profile. The only way they are going to get built is if some level of government steps forward with money. And I don't see that happening either, I'm sorry to say. It's kind of a bleak picture.