Cows are down again?!!!

[intr3est]

OT/Willowcreek.
"People in the USA are not followers of any world group- we don't see ourselves as being a one world nation, like the Europeans do."

then why do the Americans continue to sign agreements that make them members of a world groups? Do they sign them in bad faith, knowing that they will not honor them at a later date?

[Willowcreek]

intr3est--Interesting point.. I think if NAFTA, CAFTA, AFTA and most others ever came to a vote of the people they would not pass- definitely are not approved of by the Agriculture section as they get the bad end of the stick in favor of big business and manufacturing... But several years ago congress gave up our right to approve these by giving fast track approval priveleges to the President, which left even Congress little oversight..The corporate world loves the trade agreements and their ability to get cheap overseas labor and huge overseas tax breaks, but many of the working class feel dumped on by them...

[cakadu]

Farmers_son - saying "we are one" doesn't mean that everyone buys into that and clearly those south of the border (outside of the review panel) don't.

I wonder what makes Canada so quick to jump on "the rules" when others clearly don't follow them. Think back to the GATT/WTO talks and it was stated that subsides to farmers should be dropped. What did Canada do - come home and immediately take steps to do away with them. What did the US do - go home and add billions and billions more under the farm bill.

You are too right when you state that this is just part of a bigger picture and the true cost cards of getting this border open have not yet been shown to us.

I do want to see the border open, but I wonder just what the actual price is that we are going to have to pay and more importantly, will it be worth it in the long run?

[blackjack]

...willowcreek you don't ever give the whole story...your probably right about the corps...but governments look at the corps to hire the working class...I think your smart enough understand that...

P.S. ...willowcreek what ranchers in the world get more income than the americans...

[cowman]

Willowcreek: I find it sort of sad that the American cattleman considers it "THE US BEEF INDUSTRY" instead of the way it was before. My grandfather sold a ton of bulls to Americans and I used to use all kinds of semen from ABS. Just about all the cattle that came into Alberta originally came out of the States...and a lot of the cowmen. When I was a small boy there was a really old fellow who used to hang around my grandfathers place who came up with a herd from Colorado as a young man. His name was Doc Pruitt and they lost the herd in the big die of 1907!
Do you honestly believe we can take close to 100 years of history together and throw in in the trash can?... over four cows?
I'm not sure where you live? But whether it's Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado or whatever...you sure as hell ain't no different than any cowman here in Alberta, Saskatchewan, or Manitoba!
We all have the same concerns for our animals. You are us, and we are you? Don't give us this crap about an "AMERICAN" industry.

[farmers_son]

I should add I believe Willowcreek is accurately reflecting the views of the majority of U.S. cattlemen. I for one have always appreciated Willowcreek's candor and insight of the U.S. side of things. We may find this issue gets kind of emotional as we approach March 7, only 30 days away.

[Willowcreek]

cowman- but we live in two entire different countries...Different rules, laws, ways of thinking...This came to light quite clearly when Chretien snubbed the US and sided with the Europeans, Chiraque and Germany in the UN... We are not equal on most things..Whether it be money, taxes, business and land laws, whatever-- Then a term that was never heard of before BSE- "North American cattle industry" is shoved down our throats in an attempt to reopen the border...Most Canadians I know are proud to be Canadian and proud of their Canadian beef- altho Canadian beef has lost all its identity by being passed off for years with a USDA stamp as a US product. Most don't want to belong to the United States of North America.

We had cattle 100 years ago come to Montana from Texas and Mexico- does that mean we no longer have a Montana cattle industry and have a TexMex cattle industry?

[Willowcreek]

cakadu- here is the reason most in the states want all cattle permanently hot branded with CAN and heifers spayed.......

'Illegal trade' in cow passports or records!

All cattle destined for the food chain must have a passport
Cattle passports intended to ensure the origin and safety of beef are being bought and sold on the black market, say trading standards officers.
The passports were introduced to stop the spread of BSE and foot-and-mouth disease, and every British cow bound for the food chain must have one.

But trading standards officers found them being traded for up to £50, BBC Radio 4's Farming Today has learned.

A Lancashire farmer was arrested and freed on bail after an investigation.

Paperwork was removed from the man's farm, following the investigation into the movement of hundreds of animals.

'Inadequate'

Trading Standards spokesman Derek Smith said: "This could have serious consequences in terms of confidence in the British meat industry.

"Most farmers adhere to the rules and know they are there to restrict potential diseases.

"What we are looking at is probably the biggest breach of the rules seen in Britain."

Government rural advisor Lord Haskins said the discovery highlighted the inadequacy of the UK's food tracing system.

He also questioned whether the passport scheme was worth keeping.

All of the database systems and PREMISES systems have big holes in them and the cheating owners and packers are jepordizing safe food in the beef industry worldwide.

[WoolyBear]

Once that beef with a pulse crosses the 49th, what goes on with the feedlot owners, and the packers is entirely out of the control of Canadians. Some of the comments that I've read in disbelief on Ranchers.net leads me to believe that most of the Canadian ID tags are remove long before they are ever ready for the slaughter plant. Export permits generally don't move with the animals as they should be when they are resold again and again.

Can we count on the Americans in following the SAME rules when they start exporting anaplasmotic and Red/white and Bluetongue animals to the American owned feedlots in Canada? Not likely.........

[cowman]

Willow creek: I don't know where you are coming from but you certainly must know that the " cattle people" in Canada were never in favor of "Jean Chretien"! or any of his policies!
Just like you probably personally weren't too keen on Dirty Little Billy?
If you have read these threads enough, you will know I don't blame R-CALF for wanting to protect their markets? Hell I don't blame the American cattleman ....but don't ever delude yourself that some kind of BS line on a map makes me or you one bit different! We are one industry...we are one country! You might not buy that...but your grandchildren will! My own personal thoughts and opinions.

[cakadu]

I'll ask it again, if heifers are going into the feeder system and they are being put in with a bunch of steers, in their own separate pens, then what is the purpose of having the heifers spayed? Who don't you trust to play by the rules? If the heifer is in the feeder system, and she has to be under 30 months of age, what and who is there to fear?

Woolybear is right, once they are on the other side of the border, then they are out of our control.

We as Canadians keep bending over further and further - one day we are going to break. It has been mentioned before - one day the Americans are going to find their own home grown cases, then what are you going to do?

[intr3est]

Cakadu, A little change of subject, but I was reading the other day that when the US has an "inconclusive" test result, that the only lab that gets to retest is their own! For full transparency, should there not be a "global" lab that confirms results?