Cows are down again?!!!

[cowman]

I believe if the US requires all heifers to be spayed then it should follow that Canada would also require all US heifers entering Canada should be spayed? I wonder how that rule would work with purebred breeding stock? Or show cattle moving back and forth across the border? Or dairy heifers moving south?
I would think if the US demands all these things then it would not be unreasonable that Canada demands them also?
The point here is if we both implement a bunch of stupid rules, that have absolutely nothing to do with food safety, then what have we accomplished? Is this really going to enhance trade and goodwill among our countries? Or in fact is it nothing more than trade barriers to restrict commerce and lower profits for everyone?
Fortunately, the powers that be understand that integrated trade produces more wealth for everyone and looks at that as a benifit for the American economy. The American farmer and rancher needs to realize they are a tiny part of a US economy and that they are expendable in the big picture?...as is the Canadian rancher/farmer?
Quite frankly if I lived in Toronto or New York I really couldn't care less if my beef came from Kansas or South America, as long as it was safe and tasty! And also why would I care about a farmer getting high prices and subsidies? Do the people of America or Canada really need farmers if they can buy their food cheaper somewhere else?

[grassfarmer]

I think there is a lot of posturing going on here - US ranchers stating what they would like to see happening so it doesn't disrupt their market too much. Reality is the border will open because the US domestic packers want access to more Canadian cattle - they are driving the train as they do in Canada, ranchers(and politicians to an extent) are merely passengers.

[blackjack]

kgb... I agree it will mainly just be steers headed south...but don't you feel the americans making this a food safety message a little overboard...there is so many costs associated with this proposal...that it will reflect on keeping feeder prices down... my opinion

[kpb]

i agree with grassfarmer that, as usual, the packers are driving the train and we (producers) are the passengers. cowman's assertion that Canada should have the same rules regarding the importing of American cattle is interesting but, to my mind, not going to happen. The plain fact is one that I've been saying for six months--we need the American market, they do not need us, at least to the same extent that we need them. So the Americans call the tune regarding the rules to open the market, whether we like it or not. So I don't expect there will be similar rules in place regarding the importation of American cattle.
As far as spaying heifers is concerned, I suppose this will affect our purebred sales down south but I don't believe it will affect feeder prices here. However I do agree with Blackjack that all these rules will, without doubt, keep a ceiling on our feeder prices. The basis before the border opened was generally around 8 to 12 cents. I expect that the work regarding the rules and, more important, the new realization that we could lose the U.S. market again if a lot of BSE started showing up, will widen the basis to, maybe, 12 cents to 17 cents. Even so the argument could be made that feeders should trade up another 10 to 15 cents in Canada as the border opening date gets closer (given current U.S. prices).

[InAHurry]

Oldtimer (Willowcreek)
"Just because Canada had to run their beef products thru the US to sell them..."
You have made several references of the same, here and on other boards. One thought that comes to my mind is that the US BOUGHT the Canadian beef/cattle as they (US boxed beef inventory) could not domestically supply the quality for a particular beef sale.

[Willowcreek]

INAHURRY-- You are right that the US packers bought the Canadian cattle and beef- but then they cut off the Canadian markings and put a USDA stamp on it and passed it off to all consumers- US and foreign as a US product........Canada has totally lost the identity of their product.. I often see posts on here about "when we get our packing plants open people will be yelling to get good Canadian beef again"--and it makes me laugh... What Canadian beef? Most people have no idea they have ever ate Canadian beef... It had a USDA stamp on it so it had to be US beef- if you asked most US consumers they would tell you they've never eaten Canadian beef.......
And that becomes one of the concerns with the Canadian BSE problem- as more and more consumers ask questions and become knowledgeable -that the mixing of the Canadian product with the US beef may cause a lack of consumer confidence and demand-- especially since their is no way for them to tell which is which and make the choice themselves.....

[cakadu]

Willowcreek - some in the US know when they've eaten a piece of Canadian or more importanly Alberta beef simply because it does taste different. Maybe more would have chosen Canadian beef over American, had they known and actually been given the choice instead of having all Canadian stamps etc removed.

What you are saying about consumers is very true - many have absolutely no idea where their food comes from, how it was raised or how it was processed.

Your comments do bring about a question though - if there were no real differentiation of products in the consumers mind, then what brought about the proposed COOL regulations?

[intr3est]

The US was importing what about 5% of their beef supply from Canada, and then probably exporting about half of this! So, I agree with you OT, MOST US citizens probaly didn't know they were eating Canadian beef, becasue they weren't. But the export markets sure do enjoy the barley feed beef.

[intr3est]

OT, what soes the USDA tell a consumer anyway? And is it stamped on every piece of meat?

[Willowcreek]

Imported meat comes in 3 different ways- totally packaged (a finished product) like the New Zealand lamb- this is already cut and ready for sale-- since nothing is done to it in the US it has to be marked as product of New Zealand- but most, like the Canadian beef now comes in boxed beef which is cut or trimmed as necessary by the packer or retailer and repackaged- then the USDA approved stamp is put on by the retailer--same was happening with swinging beef before the border closure- This is then put out for sale with the only marking being the USDA stamp-- which most consumers (even myself, until a few years ago)believe means US beef.. Its a total fraud.... But with the BSE issue and more consumer groups becoming involved in food safety more are being enlightened...
COOl really first came to light when the Jack in the Box ecoli deaths happened several years ago-..It was believed some of the meat involved was imported--that along with the finding that some packers were selling low quality tainted imported beef in the school lunch program led to the passage of a law allowing only US product in the school lunch program. NCBA then took up the battle to have meat products from the over 40 countries we import from marked as to country of origin..NCBA split over how to define US cattle and dropped the issue- that is when R-CALF came along and picked it up.. It has probably lost NCBA more members than any other issue...
Personally I would say open the border tommorrow if we had a mandatory COOL law in effect.. Consumers could choose on the quality issue and the safety issue of Canadian beef- and if 10 more cases of BSE were found in Canada it would have a much less effect on the confidence of the US product...

[JD6320]

Willowcreek,
When/if cool is implemented in the states,the consumer will be the big winner because you will be Walmartizing the meat case. I think in the long run consumers don't care were there foods originates as long as it inspected and safe. If two products are relatively the same, price will rule-Walmart proves this every day-How many American made products does walmart sell?

[InAHurry]

Willowcreek, I can't get into a debate about COOL, I don't know enough about the guts of it, it's the US's baby. At a glance though, you might have a positive response if it implemented as Patriotism right now, would be working in your favor. And if R-Calf keeps up the negative (mostly false) comments about Canadian (all imported) beef without being corrected this also would work to your favor. But the glory could be short lived as consumer's shift their thoughts and $ elsewhere or domestic beef suddenly is put into the same light as R-calf is protraying Canadian Beef.

Responding to your other post - "You are right that the US packers bought the Canadian cattle and beef- but then they cut off the Canadian markings and put a USDA stamp on it and passed it off to all consumers- US and foreign as a US product........Canada has totally lost the identity of their product..

I wouldn't say we lost our identity - the buyers of our beef (and cattle pre-BSE) were 'repeat' customers - they knew it was Canadian, still had our sticker on it, so to speak!

[Willowcreek]

inahurry- I think the time will come when Canadians are screaming for COOL...After AFTA, CAFTA, and a few more trade agreements go into effect and packers can access beef way cheaper in Brazil or other country, run it into and thru the US and send it into Canada to drive down cattle prices for both of us....Canada doesn't worry me- we need to look further down the line......

[ALICIA]

It was my undersanding that replacement cattle are not included in the rules for crossing the boarder.

[15444]

I have seen a few references in US ag papers online that say the American cowherd is in expansion mode.

What do you guys think is going to happen to the cowherd expansion in the US, based on the potential border opening rules, proposed by NCBA?

My thinking is that the extra feeder steers going south will negatively influence the prices enough that guys will go into major expansion mode to pick up what might be lost per calf.
With no breeding heifers or cows heading south, I wonder what the going rate for bred heifers and young cows will hit in the US?