Willowcreek/Oldtimer

[Willowcreek]

Joe 2- Japan does not raise enough beef to feed its consumers- the US can.. Also the US has never had unlimited and unresricted access to the Japanese market to dump all the beef we could- there were and are tonnage limits...

[Joe-2]

Will-OT, Do imports of USA beef into Japan increase or decrease the price that Japanese cattlemen receive for their cattle? Riding on kimono tails or not?? TRQ's are a separate arguement as USA has not signed an FTA with Japan.
Think back to the outcome of R-calf's 1999 legal action before you throw out the word "dumping".(NO HARM)R-calf's "cheap CDN. cattle" arguement falls apart as soon as you realize that prior to May /03 when Us fat prices were about 85 US, CDN fat prices were about 1.05 CDN. Basicly the same price with the exchange and trucking.
Even if Canada "dumped" every pound of beef it could produce into the US ,it would still only amount to about 10% of US domestic supply. Do you know what country was the 4th largest customer for US beef prior to BSE?? (hint- it starts with Can....)

Grab yer partner for the "Protectionist Polka"!!!!! LOL.

[intr3est]

OT-Maybe the US can preduce enough for their domestic market, but in 2004 they didn't, what happened?

[Willowcreek]

Joe-2 I don't know how much effect US beef has on the Japanese cattle prices-but I do know they cannot produce enough beef on their own and have to buy from somewhere- might as well be the US....I would imagine one of the reasons for the TRQ's and penalty costs are to protect their cattle producers prices..

You have to remember that the US, if it was not importing unlimited amounts of beef, would not need an export market...We can consume what we produce..

As for the "dumping" allogation- I believe that the next time this issue is heard their will be much more evidence to support it- Two years of closed border which allowed record breaking prices on all class's of cattle is strong evidence.. Even many of the strong proponents of the border not having an effect on prices are having to reevaluate their views...
Yesterday I was at the sale barn and watched cull bulls selling for $77cwt--young bred cows selling for $1495...It would be hard to convince those producers selling that the border has no effect on price......

[rkaiser]

Lost in Space.
That is all I think of when reading Oltimers posts. Oltimer is a good name for this fellow as many oltimers are just like this fellow, entrenched and afraid of change.
This conversation about American production, exports, and meeting the demands of the consumers of America is all focused on protectionist, anti trade Bullshit.
Not only do we live with a North American Beef Industry, we live with a World wide Beef Industry. If Cargil and Tyson could get a better deal (and they might) for grain fed beef from Australia, where the hell do you think they would go.

You can post all you want on this site or where ever you like Oltimer, your country and OURS gave us that freedom. But try to convince me, or any other open minded forward thinking individual that America should look after America, and Canada should keep to themselves,,,,,,wake the hell up. Go live on a hutterite colony if you want control and "the good old ways". This world will move on without you some day Oldtimer, as it will without me. And it ain't going to go back to some draconian tading situation that you invision as the only way for American beef producers to survive.

P.S.
Brag about victories that Rcalf has won over the past couple of years all you like; nothing Rcalf has done has changed a thing. They have blown your money and padded the pockets of leadership and lawyers. AMI has and will call the shots as far as trade with Canada and every other beef producing nation.

[Willowcreek]

AMI has and will call the shots as far as trade with Canada and every other beef producing nation.
-------

And you're just happy and content to take whatever AMI, Tyson, and Cargil throw at you? Not me-- I will work to change their dominance and give the producer a bigger say in the cattle industry....

[Joe-2]

OT-"You have to remember that the US, if it was not importing unlimited amounts of beef, would not need an export market...We can consume what we produce.."
The part that seems to always escape you Oldtimer is, "We can consume what we produce.." BUT AT WHAT PRICE!!!!! The excess variety meats,(brisket,skirt,offal,etc)that our appetite for higher value cuts produces,are worth way more $$$ when they can be EXPORTED to consumers that will pay more for them than North Americans will.All those choice carcasses we consume in Canada and the US also produce other products that don't sell well here.We sell those products where they bring the most money.Brisket and skirt meat made up a large portion of what Japan was buying.We export that and bring in cheap lean trim to blend with all the fat trimmed from those choice carcasses.
Why is this trade picture so difficult for you to understand?? Or maybe you do understand it but are too caught up in doing the "R-calf Conga" to ever admit it!!LOL.
PS. Who is at the front of that conga line? Leo? Bill? Lawyers??

[rkaiser]

I have sold 11 animals in almost 2 years to the conventional marketplace, and those went to a Canadian owned packer.

I calve out over 200 head of cows and sell about 30 bulls a year.

Now tell me again that I am sitting back taking what Cargil and Tyson are prepared to give.

But I am not on a mission to destroy the livelihood of fellow ranchers just because they live a few hundred miles away.

Even though I will say again that Rcalf has accomplished nothing, they constantly attempt to make things the fault of Canadian ranchers.

Your agenda is old and stale you old fart. Find another way to save your producers and become a hero.

[farmers_son]

Willowcreek: I for one have no problem with your posts. You may or may not be an R-Calf supporter and although I think R-Calf is hurting the U.S. beef industry with some of their policy positions I realize that there are producers in the U.S. that think along the lines of R-Calf. I do not believe calling anyone names or insulting them ever helped them to change their thinking and opinions or opened any opportunities for dialogue.

I noted your remark "but I do know [Japan] cannot produce enough beef on their own and have to buy from somewhere- might as well be the US...."

Might as well be Canada too.

[cowman]

Well I have to agree with you farmers son...about the name calling thing. Randy gets fairly passionate at times.
Willowcreek: I don't know if you are an R-CALFER or not and don't really care. You see things from your perspective across the line and you lay it out here. I believe that is a good thing!
I have never held it against the American cattleman for trying to protect his market, however sometimes I think R-CALF needs to step back and consider their tactics? Lining up with radical animal rights groups and calling into question the safety of our meat supply might not be the smartest idea? I suspect both might come back to bite you in the butt?
Attended the local cattle sale and prices are starting to go up! A lot of these cattle are being bought by Americans. They intend to feed them right here due to the cheap grain and lots of pen space available. I suspect they will make a killing when that border opens March 7th? But even if it doesn't the economics of feeding cattle look good. I wonder if any of these Americans are R-CALF supporters? Would be sort of hypocritical if they were?