Willowcreek/Oldtimer

[intr3est]

I see that you skipped over here when I asked you these questions, so I'll ask them again here. I know you won't get away with dodging here!

OT-I would appreciate it if you just answer yes or no to these questions. A yes/no answer will be sufficient, you've probably heard that before. And I know you have respect for the basis that the US justice system/law was built. On truth and concise answers!

1) In your opinion are Canadian animals contaminatedwith BSE , ever since the feed ban in 1997? yes or no?

2) Have the number of Canadian animals in the US at any one time in the last 5 years, exceeded 1 million animals? Yes or No?

3) Are these animals not being culled at the same rate as Canadian older animals, yes or no?

4) Are they all being condemned? Yes or No?

5)Are the majority not being killed for human consumption, yes or no?

6) By your yes and no answers I will take that as you are stating that the US beef supply is not safe and that we as consumers should never eat beef again!

[ALICIA]

intr3est- 2 Vegetarions dies in England from BSE. Eat no vegtables eather, you my get BSE.

[Willowcreek]

Murgen- I answered you on ranchers.....

[intr3est]

Not with Yes or no answers, it was a long winded explanation dodging the questions!

[Joe-2]

I was going to Willowcreek/Oldtimer what the difference between Canada exporting to the US,and the US exporting to Japan, is. Following his logic,the US cattleman would be riding on the shirt-tails,or would that be kimono-tails, of the Japanese cattleman.
He'd probably have done the 'Billings Two-Step' around that one as well.

[intr3est]

AS they say on Ranchers, OT is stuck in the corner on this one, he's been ignoring me ever since. Damn, and I was looking for his unbiased and logical answers. I guess we'll just have to keep pinning him in the corner until he calls uncle, unless he's brave enough to answer with some yes and no's?

[Willowcreek]

Joe-2 The difference is that Canada has 4 origin BSE cattle and the US has none- the US has completely dropped all its previously established rules and protocol to import Canadian boxed beef, and still Canada wants more- and the most important is that Japan has Country of Origin Labeling...... Their consumers can do their own risk analysis on which countries beef they want to eat and the decision is left up to the consumer- where it should be...Rather than the current practice in the US of marking all Canadian beef with a USDA stamp and passing it off as US beef.......

Like I've always said- Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling on all beef-then throw the border open--Let the consumer decide..........

[intr3est]

OT-half the beef in the US is killed in Commercial plants, not federal, is this also stamped USDA?

[Willowcreek]

OT-half the beef in the US is killed in Commercial plants, not federal, is this also stamped USDA?

interest3- If its for sale....

[Joe-2]

Will-OT-"The difference is that Canada has 4 origin BSE cattle and the US has none."
Ya OK OT, but I was hearing that "riding on shirt tails" thing long before BSE was discovered here.(1999)
Why is it OK for the USA to pursue the Japanese market ,and not OK for Canada to pursue the US market without being accused of taking a free ride?? Don't US imports "harm" Japanese producers??? Were you guys "riding on their kimono-tails" prior to Dec/03??

Everyone get ready for "Montana Mambo"!!!!LOL.

[Willowcreek]

Joe 2- Japan does not raise enough beef to feed its consumers- the US can.. Also the US has never had unlimited and unresricted access to the Japanese market to dump all the beef we could- there were and are tonnage limits...

[Joe-2]

Will-OT, Do imports of USA beef into Japan increase or decrease the price that Japanese cattlemen receive for their cattle? Riding on kimono tails or not?? TRQ's are a separate arguement as USA has not signed an FTA with Japan.
Think back to the outcome of R-calf's 1999 legal action before you throw out the word "dumping".(NO HARM)R-calf's "cheap CDN. cattle" arguement falls apart as soon as you realize that prior to May /03 when Us fat prices were about 85 US, CDN fat prices were about 1.05 CDN. Basicly the same price with the exchange and trucking.
Even if Canada "dumped" every pound of beef it could produce into the US ,it would still only amount to about 10% of US domestic supply. Do you know what country was the 4th largest customer for US beef prior to BSE?? (hint- it starts with Can....)

Grab yer partner for the "Protectionist Polka"!!!!! LOL.

[intr3est]

OT-Maybe the US can preduce enough for their domestic market, but in 2004 they didn't, what happened?

[Willowcreek]

Joe-2 I don't know how much effect US beef has on the Japanese cattle prices-but I do know they cannot produce enough beef on their own and have to buy from somewhere- might as well be the US....I would imagine one of the reasons for the TRQ's and penalty costs are to protect their cattle producers prices..

You have to remember that the US, if it was not importing unlimited amounts of beef, would not need an export market...We can consume what we produce..

As for the "dumping" allogation- I believe that the next time this issue is heard their will be much more evidence to support it- Two years of closed border which allowed record breaking prices on all class's of cattle is strong evidence.. Even many of the strong proponents of the border not having an effect on prices are having to reevaluate their views...
Yesterday I was at the sale barn and watched cull bulls selling for $77cwt--young bred cows selling for $1495...It would be hard to convince those producers selling that the border has no effect on price......

[rkaiser]

Lost in Space.
That is all I think of when reading Oltimers posts. Oltimer is a good name for this fellow as many oltimers are just like this fellow, entrenched and afraid of change.
This conversation about American production, exports, and meeting the demands of the consumers of America is all focused on protectionist, anti trade Bullshit.
Not only do we live with a North American Beef Industry, we live with a World wide Beef Industry. If Cargil and Tyson could get a better deal (and they might) for grain fed beef from Australia, where the hell do you think they would go.

You can post all you want on this site or where ever you like Oltimer, your country and OURS gave us that freedom. But try to convince me, or any other open minded forward thinking individual that America should look after America, and Canada should keep to themselves,,,,,,wake the hell up. Go live on a hutterite colony if you want control and "the good old ways". This world will move on without you some day Oldtimer, as it will without me. And it ain't going to go back to some draconian tading situation that you invision as the only way for American beef producers to survive.

P.S.
Brag about victories that Rcalf has won over the past couple of years all you like; nothing Rcalf has done has changed a thing. They have blown your money and padded the pockets of leadership and lawyers. AMI has and will call the shots as far as trade with Canada and every other beef producing nation.