Question for purebred breeders?

[cowman]

I wonder how many Canadian purebred breeders would buy a bull/breeding stock
from the USA? Or for that matter semen or embryoes? How about buying from someone who was very vocal about keeping the border closed? Say an R-CALFER?
Is R-CALFs membership list public knowledge or is it kept a secret? Would you buy genetics from someone who had been telling the world you have tainted unsafe animals?
Now the next question? If the border was open to breeding stock would you sell your bulls to a known R-CALFER? I don't know if any would be interested...after all our cattle are tainted, right? Seems to me there used to be lots of big Montana/Wyoming ranches that used to like our big rugged bulls, but I suppose they wouldn't want these walking death machines now?

[rkaiser]

I've always said that this is not an issue between producers in Canada and producers in the USA. Rcalf has made it about his. These extremely misled fellows (how's that for politically correct name calling), with their protectionist agenda, have created an atmosphere of producer vs. producer. Their efforts are as futile as the efforts of ABP/CCA or BIG C. Trade of beef between Canada and the USA is well beyond any of our control, and fighting among producers only serves to entertain the powers that be.

I would sell a bull to an American in a heartbeat, and would by ANOTHER as well.
I would not expect that an Rcalf member would be on either the ingoing, or outgoing mailing list as the thoughts they have been led towards by leadership like Bullshit Bullard would not bode well for exchange of ideas with any Canadian let alone exchange of cattle.

[cswilson]

My biggest bull customer is a senator in Wyoming-non r-calfer-but I often wonder if he'll keep buying once the border opens-just because of political reasons. Doubt if I'll ever see a bunch of Saskatchewan bulls grazing along the Powder River ever again. Things are never going to be the same after this-too many actions taken that are going to be hard to forget-I haven't been south since 5/20 but I sure miss it-my annual bull delivery trip was my holiday every year.

[rkaiser]

I guess our holiday bull delivery trips will be in Alberta, Manitoba, and Northern Saskatchewan this year cswilson. Do you know, George Million or Don Cambell? Could drop yours off when I'm delivery their bulls this spring.

Where you ever able to open that last email cs?

[SASH]

rkaiser:
Do you have your vertically integrated market system set up in Manitoba. I see your ad says 'Western Canadian cities.' Does that include Winnipeg? Nice bulls, especially those Welsh Blacks but I'm still trying to get rid of all the hair that the last Highland bull left in my herd. However, if I had a place to sell my calves where I wasn't going to be discounted I might be interested.

[SASH]

Once the border opens, I doubt if anyone will pick and choose who they sell their cattle to in the US. I would bet that r-calfers will buy Canadian bulls, likely Alberta bulls, because they can get damn good bulls here in AB. of any color they want,and still for a favorable dollar exchange, but I really doubt if any of them will go back and brag on where they bought their bull !! At least for a year or two !!!

[grassfarmer]

Back to the old hair prejudice SASH, So many people trot this out as a case against well haired cattle. As Randy pointed out a few weeks ago in another thread a well fleshed, good conformation calf with hair is not penalised because of it's coat. Poor cattle with no shape or flesh are penalised for being hairy - but they are also penalised if they are wearing horns, obviously dirty tailed etc.
I sold Luing x steers a couple of weeks ago (off a bull with 6 inch guard hairs) and topped the market. I like my Charolais bulls with as much hair as possible too - again these tan calves with a good haircoat are not penalised - why should they be? if there was ever a country that suited hairy cattle Western Canada is it.
It's unfortunate people use hair as an excuse to discriminate against certain breeds of cattle when it is the quality of the cattle that is at fault not the actual hair.

[SASH]

Grassfarmer:
I don't know where you are from but even though the Highland bull I had seemed, in my mind anyway, to improve the meatiness and finishing ease of my cattle, I've found that the market doesn't seem to like it. Also liked most of the Galloways I had, but got rid of the white ones for the same reasons (heavy discounts on the calves)My experience is, in Manitoba anyway, there are two types of cattle the market likes Char-Simm crosses and Black cattle of any kind. Step outside the nine dots and it seems you get discounted. Been there, tried it, the cows I got off the Galloways and Highlands were good but those calves I sold took a hit at the market and so I am leery to try it again. JMHO.

[rkaiser]

I think that what grassfarmer was trying to say SASH, is that it is all in the timing. Selling CALVES with hair in the fall when that hair is at its longest gives the buyers a scapegoat/ something different to make an excuse for a lower price. If you had the time and resources to see those calves through til 800 pounds with a bit of grain in them and some shine, you would see a different attitude.

When I get ready to sell an old pickup, I wash the darn thing, and clean out the pop bottles from under the seat.If I really want to get the most out of this old truck, I will take a few dents out, and maybe even put a set of rings on those old pistons. In other words, put a bit in to get a bit more out.

Shine em up, and understand that most buyers (of anything) are looking for any reason for a bargain. If you see the merits in cattle with hair and easy keeping attributes, don't let a little thing like buyers searching for a bargain on calves, turn you away from what you see as good. There are always alternative marketing routes.

[cowman]

It almost seems if you want to raise anything other than "the flavor of the month" you have to find a different market than the auction mart. I remember a bunch of Belgium Blue calves going through the mart and they brought holstein prices. Now let me tell you these steers were little muscle machines...probably more meat on them than anything else in the barn!
The industry is pretty hard on Simmental cattle right now...they definitely are not the "flavor of the month"...and yet they grow like hell and are good mommas. They can definitely work in a cross breeding program and sure have helped out the old herefords!

[cswilson]

Randy I know both George and Don very well-in fact George and I have partnered on the odd bull together. You need to try and get some welshblack/hfd F1 hfrs in your sale-I think those would be sweet to run Angus bulls on. I've got to do the phone buying at a bull sale in Brooks on the 21st so gonna try and get out to your sale too.

[cswilson]

Randy I know both George and Don very well-in fact George and I have partnered on the odd bull together. You need to try and get some welshblack/hfd F1 hfrs in your sale-I think those would be sweet to run Angus bulls on. I've got to do the phone buying at a bull sale in Brooks on the 21st so gonna try and get out to your sale too. ohhh and I still can't open your e-mail pics-try sending them as singles.

[grassfarmer]

I've never been penalised on my calves in the fall either because of hair Randy. I don't sell fresh weaned calves I always precondition and sell them later if that makes a difference.
I had a laugh back in January when it was real cold. I was heading out into the field to feed one bunch of cows and had one of those heart stopping moments when you spot a cow lying out in the snow not moving when all the rest had been sheltering in the corrals overnight. Got closer and it was one of my 18 year old purebreds - sitting quite happy, snow drifted up onto her back, she didn't think it was worth walking back into the corrals for shelter. It had been in the low -30s with windchill! Imagine how much energy that type of animal must conserve if their insulation is that much better than the average cow.
I notice the buffalo do this too and look how well they survive on this continent.

[ALICIA]

Cowman- I am a little different, I buy the cows breed to a good bull and hope the calf she is caring is a bull. Not to meany suprises that way, you got the mother and her calf and us prebreed breeders cane trace our herefords back to almost the begining of time. Thats way herefords are Pure and not just Regestered that have a little unknown factors in the background to give you those suprises.

[grassfarmer]

Remind me again Alicia - where did the polled gene originate in the Hereford breed? Was it Galloway or Angus blood?