Is it possible?

[cowman]

Is it possible to compile a list of all supporters of R-CALF? You know what I mean...all the businesses that have bid at their various "bake sales", sort of thing? All the US purebred breeders who are supporting R-CALF? AI and otherwise?
I don't deny them the right to play the protectionist game, but I sure don't want to support them?
I occasionally buy sprayer parts from a Montana firm, but on learning they bid on an R-Calf fundraiser, I will no longer EVER buy from them! I don't believe it is ever in our best interests to support people who are hell-bent on destroying our Canadian beef industry!

[ALICIA]

I bet it would be pretty difficult to get a list of these folks, but I sure agree with your comments cowman.

[rkaiser]

We could always ask Oldtimer. When you speak as proudly of your affiliation to something like he does, why wouldn't you also be proud to name your members.
I'd name the membership of BIG C in a minute, if they agreed.

[grassfarmer]

Or we could just organise a campaign to get at the US Government, IBP and Cargill - lets face they are the real cause of our problems not a bunch of redneck northern state producers who have very much in common with Alberta producers.

[intr3est]

I've been keeping a copy of all there press releases on their sales, with donaters and buyers listed. Won't get them all onto a list, but hopefully a few!

[farmers_son]

Grassfarmer: You said “Or we could just organise a campaign to get at the US Government, IBP and Cargill - lets face they are the real cause of our problems not a bunch of redneck northern state producers who have very much in common with Alberta producers.”

Your comments struck a chord with me. I agree that R-Calf is not our real problem, as you say a bunch of rednecks who have a lot in common with Alberta producers. I gave quite a bit of thought to the U.S. government, IBP and Cargill comment. For sure they are a problem. Maybe it would be better if we thought of them as challenges that our industry must deal with. But they are not the real cause of the problem.

The real problem is how we react to the challenges that the U.S. government, Cargill and IBP/Tyson present us. I would say that if we revert to the status quo then we are the real cause of our problems. As March 7 approaches will we forget the lessons of the past two years and fall back into the trap of sending live cattle south of the border or will we build packer capacity in this country sufficient to match our production and even slaughter some U.S. production. And will we own that packing capacity or will we depend upon American interests to slaughter our live cattle?

If we own the problem, then we can be the solution. I would say that from March 7 on, if we are not building packing plants, then we are our own worst enemy and the root cause of our problems and we will have no business pointing fingers at the U.S. anymore. The U.S., Cargill, IBP and even R-Calf have shown us what needs to be done, it is up to us to create the solution.

The title of this topic is very appropriate, is it possible. I think if we focused our resources on building our packing plant capacity then I believe that it is possible.

[grassfarmer]

Yes that's the way to go but IS IT POSSIBLE?
In my opinion it should be possible but I now think it unlikely. We've essentially got nothing off the ground in Alberta throughout this crisis and if we haven't done it by now I don't think we are going too. (Apart from the Price/Van Raay operation, granted)

On one side we have the big US packers, giving clear instructions to the AB government not to help producer plants.The AB and Federal governments are both either frightened or bribed by the packers as evidenced by the "packer inquest" charade prior to the election. We have ABP - our heroic defenders who are obviously reading off the same script. We have banks and lending institutions who will not back plant proposals because they know without legislative protection and enforcement of anti competition laws the new plants won't last 6 months if the big packers don't like their competition.

On the other side we have producers - or should I say about 5-10% of producers, as that seems to be the number informed, involved or interested in what is going on. The larger percentage seem either to be working off farm, elderly hanging on for a few more years, or dreamers following the ABP mantra of "once the border opens there will be prosperity". Any plans to build producer plants are majorly restricted by lack of available funds in producers pockets of course.

All in all a disappointing scenario in my book but that is what it looks like from my part of the world.

[cowman]

Well I don't think the packers give Alberta or Canada their marching orders? I mean eventually they did let the government look at their books right? And I believe the government said they didn't do anything wrong?
The banks wouldn't lend money because they saw these proposed plants as a very risky investment with little chance of success?
The point here is the packing industry will get this border open! They have been pushing for it all along? Who is suing the American government over the border closure to older animals?...AMI?
If the packing industry have their way the border will open? Who is standing in their way? R-CALF and friends? They are the ones challenging the USDA to keep it closed?
Now I don't blame them for trying as it is in their best interest to keep it closed. I do think they are walking in a mine field by spouting all this "diseased tainted meat" rhetoric though!
However I don't believe we should be supporting anyone who is working against our best interests? We shouldn't be buying anything from anyone who supports R-CALF?...Just like we shouldn't be buying any products from PETA supporters? Or EARTH FIRST supporters?
Just common sense? Why would anyone want to deal with someone who is intent on destroying them?

[rkaiser]

Cowman if you beleive for a moment that Rcalf has had anything to do with a closed or a continued closed border you're dreamin. Rcalf has been the media spotlight, but are there only as a scapegoat to blame if it looks wrong, or to applaud if it looks right.

Cargil and Tyson never fought for the border to open as long as they were making shitloads of money and could keep Conagra at bay due to their lack of a Canadian plant. Now they fight for it because they know the gravy train is running dry. But they still play the power game with the OTM beef. Why has AMI (Cargil and Conagra {Swift}) won the battle over not allowing OTM boxed beef south????? Because Tyson (NMA) has a plant that would turn to killing cows in a heartbeat should the border open that way. No more obscene profits in fats once the border opens, might as well milk the OTM thing til it bleeds dry. Power struggle for money and nothing else!

As far as this government being led by the packers thing, I'm with you grassfarmer. The supposed investigation time frame is important to recall. When the government said they were making very high profits, but all legal profits, they included the time right after the border was closed. Which we all hear was the major time of loss for the packers. Let's check the books from the time UTM boxed beef was allowed across the line til the fall of 2004. A move won by the packers and not our government or Industry groups. Obscene profits would not even come close to explaining this period of time.

Once again I agree with grassfarmer that most proposals will now fail. However, the BIG C proposal is probably receiving as much attention as ever, and has as much opportunity for survival now as any time past or present.

[farmers_son]

Most proposals will fail? I think the opportunities in the beef packing, processing and value adding industry are better now than they were before 2003.

A producer owned packing plant that can quarantee a link between producer and plate has an advantage over Cargill and Tyson. There are marketing advantages that a producer packing plant can capitilize on not to mention synergies in production/processing. Will a producer plant put Cargill/Tyson out of business, no. But make no mistake about it, most of the profit in the beef value chain does not make it back beyond the packer level. By participating in the industry beyond the live calf, producers can share in those profits.

Or producers can sit back and bitch, point fingers, blame someone else for their lack of control over their own industry. The choice will be up to us as individuals if we want to be part of the solution or part of the problem.

[jensend]

i guess cowman the flip side to the packers getting this border open is that they are keeping other borders (i.e. japan) closed by calling the shots on testing and compliance with their health regulations. this is only working for them. this is a golden opportunity for us to leap ahead of our best friends to the south and open the doors for ourselves but we have too many politicians who are impressed with the opportunity to take orders from the big boys to let their own constituents get ahead.

[greybeard]

Well said Randy. Like I said before, when you look back now it was amazing how quick the border popped open to boxed UTM in order to get those plants profiting from this political situation. Those with the most political clout made the most money.
I think the seeds have been sown for taking control of our own processing for those that want it. Some plants are running now and I think some will go regardless.
Reviewing the summary in January Cattlemen magazine:
Rangeland Beef Processors is slaughtering now.
Peace Country Tender Beef may have Chinese investment.
Cargill has expanded by 25%
Lakeside will expand
Ranchers Beef (Price/Cor Van Ray ) will go by next fall
TK Natural Beef will probably go
Natural Valley Farms is in the market and has the money
XL Moose Jaw went from 4500 to 8500 /week and are currently raping the cull cow market.
Rancher’s choice in Dauphin looks likely.
Gencor Foods / Genex is killing dairy culls
Atlantic Beef Products is operating.
I don’t know enough about the others to comment.
When I say the seeds are sown, I mean if the participants in these plants find them beneficial there will be more expansion.
I think some will go and some will fail. Depends mostly on who’s running them, and how committed the shareholders are. You can bet some shareholders will be getting very attractive bids for their cattle from “other sources”.
Regardless of how they do, the facilities will be there. Sometimes it is the second or third owner that gets things right.

[Joe-2]

I've had my minions watching for and compiling a list of known R-calf members and supporters for the past 15 months or so.They are currently alphabetizing it and making additions etc.
I will gladly e- mail a copy of the list to anyone that wants one once it is ready.
Interestingly enough, there are close to a dozen names on the list that I recognize as past customers for hay/straw and or cattle in years gone by!!! Guess who is getting a 40% "dink factor" added to their cost in the future???
Two-faced people REALLY piss me off!!!