time for a change

[nicolaas]

I think that our cattle industry leaders should get their heads out of the sand and start to be a bit more proactive. This has been going on for almost 2 years, and all the cattle organizations still tell us to wait for the border to open. And heaven forbid, we don't need to test because blah. blah .blah.. (more likely just scared of pissing off the US.) Our leaders are dinosaurs who are afraid of change, or have no idea how to adapt. I wonder if they run their operations the same way? THese people are getting stale and need to be replaced. When the U.S. economy crashes due to their huge deficits (trading and otherwise) would it not be a good idea not to be so dependent on their consumer? I say test everything, give our consumers what they want. If just one of these new plants coming on line would do this, and started exporting to the orient, the multinationals would modify thier plants to do the same awfully quick. I'm willing to tighten my belt for another couple years for the good of the canadian industry, because as it stands now we don't got much control over it yet. Hats off to you producers that are being proactive and involved in these new plants under consrtuction. You have my outmost respect for your foresight and willingness to take a chance!

[Joe-2]

Check out the prices in Ontario,for fats and cull cows and bulls. She's a different world down east boys and girls!!
Not to hard to figure out why "our"(and I use the word "our" very loosly) Federal government is DITHERING!!!
Just another example of a Western based industry being used as canon fodder as long as the eastern power base is happy.
Any of you ontario and keebec producers on here just go ahead and whine as loud as you can,like you can,over this latest border setback.Go ahead and demand some more govt.$$$ while you are getting $1.10 for your fats and $0.70 for cows and bulls.
You candy-asses should venture out west of Winnipeg and see how the REAL cattlemen/women live!!!
FREE THE WEST NOWWWWW !!!!!!!!
(end of rant)LOL!!!

[Bez]

Careful Joe-2

Not all of out here in "middle Canada" are born and raised here. The entire county OFA board opened their books to the media and politicians. I thought I was bad at 75K in the hole. We are the best off.

More than 20 beef producers are either shut down or banks took them. That's within 50 miles of me. Not big by your standards, but these guys handle 150 - 300 head. More to follow.

Sale tonight and prices are down. Latest phone call tells me they are in the 70 cent range for 5 weights.

Attitude like yours - laughing or not - is what keeps the folks in power laughing at us all.

Suspect we will be done by August - sell or have them take us. Not fun here either my fine feathered friend.

Bez

[Bez]

nicolaas

Could not agree more. However, there are the typical "do not get involved" crowd out there. Alberta Beef Producers had how many show up for the vote?

I am with Randy K. Test every gawddamn animal. Proactively steal every market the Yanks have / had. Kaiser has his shit together and the gov does not. Not enough of you folks out there are jumping up and down and screaming bloody murder.

Think people think! If you do not DEMAND action you will not get it.

Your ag leaders will not demand action until YOU do. They will simply do tea and crumpets with the big boys while you wither on the vine.

If you sit back, do nothing and bitch over coffee then you get what you deserve - NOTHING.

Who is getting all the commodity groups together in the west? To my knowledge NO ONE IS!!! UNITY is power.

I have negotiated enough contracts in my life to know one thing for sure. When you sit down to negotiate, you must realize from teh start that the gov does NOT have to negotiate back. They will only do this if the producer has a hammer and is ready to use it. If you do not - well, then settle in for a long talk - they get paid to talk - you on the other hand should be at home taking care of business.

The western beef producer as a whole is a weak and divided group that in most cases sits back and whines loudly. Look at those who say test and those who say do not test. Look at those who want a floor price and those who do not. Look at those who salivate - waiting for someone to go down so they can step in and buy cheap - we all have seen it - no use denying it. Us folks in the "east" were like that - and in some rare cases still are - but it is changing FAST.

The world is run by those who show up. While there are some who laugh and/or complain about the farm folk in "eastern" Canada - the fact is they showed up in Toronto last week. They will be there again this week and they will be in Ottawa in the near future.

It has taken a lot of work - and a lot of personal sacrifice by many - this family included - but .....
ALL COMMODITY GROUPS are on side and speaking with one voice in Ontario. I am not seeing that anywhere else in Canada but Quebec. Why the hell not?

The tactic by the various gov groups is to divide and conquer. Farm and ranch groups meekly accept this. Shame on them.

That is rapidly vanishing here. Toronto garbage is worth 5 - 8 bucks a tonne MORE than corn. Cheap US corn is coming into this province. Wheat producers here are getting their asses kicked as are those who try to grow any other grain.

All the grain growers - corn, wheat and barley are getting together - first time ever. This week.

Dairy and beef are beginning to support each other. Even the poultry guys - they are by far the best off financially have jumperd on board to support the rest of us.

If guys like Joe-2 would work as hard to get things going like that in his own province, things would change and change fast.

We may still get our asses kicked down here, but the politicians are starting to take notice.

Liberal Don Boudria got a wake up call a few nights ago - someone shot a cow and dumped it on his doorstep. I would suspect more to come. I do not want to hear any "I do not think that is right" comments.

Mark my words it will get hotter down here if the politicians do not take note. A man will take a lot, but when he sees money going to industry and to casinoes - 400 million to the casino in Windsor - 200 million to the auto workers and GM.

See this as yourliving goes to auction and you walk away with a suitcase for each family member and tell me you are willing to accept it?

650,000 jobs depend directly on ag in this province. Not only farmers went to Toronto - piles of ancilliary businesses showed up as well.Is that happening ion the west? Not yet. Well, maybe a sale barn or a machinery guy - but what about welders, electricians, brokers, bankers, and even a couple of lawyers and such?

Desparate times demand desparate measures. It will get ... mmmm ... shall we say ... difficult for some politicians down here unless they begin to do as they are told by their elected representatives.

Now some in the west will say this is improper - but there are many here who are ready to emulate Quebec. You folks may do that as well some day.

But to quote the leader of the UPA when he came to one of our organization meetings some time back -

"You are not desparate enough yet".

We are now.

Bez

[15444]

Joe-2

Where's these 70 cent culls your talking about??? I WANT IN!!! The only place that ever has paid 70 cent culls is the Gencor plant (24 hours from where I am) on top quality carcasses at dressed weight.

[rkaiser]

Damn good post BEZ. The problem in Alberta is still the respect and adoration given to ABPCCA as the National hero of the beef industry.

We'll get that border open, but in the mean time look at all the packing capacity coming on line. Just leave out the American part of that last statement.

What a joke, where the hell is ABP support for new Canadian initiatives. $200,000.00 to Rick Paskal and the gang for their private fight with the USA. Why not $200,000.00 for a feasability study for an industry changing idea that would benefit all producers in this country. I'm talking BIG C of course.

Sorry Bez but this gang almost ran out of gas and is close to running out of money chasing this dream with little or no support from our illustrious industry leadership. They bark now about needing to expand offshore markets. Who the hell is going to sell offshore. Cargil and Tyson are doing just fine raping the producers of Canada and sending all the beef they can process to their American friends. Why would the Alberta government cough up another 30 million to expand these offshore markets when we don't have the CANADIAN packing capacity to fill an order.

Brag all they want about new capacity, the only ones with any numbers of newness are Cargil and Tyson, and they don't need new markets.

This threat by Rcalf to stop the existing trade of boxed product is bogus. AMI, USDA and George himself will never stand for that crap. If Cargil and Tyson could kill more, and lately FIND more, all of it would be going south.

Hope everyone is enjoying those steak sandwiches from D1 and D2 cows. We'll be eating that stuff for a while yet, while we send the cream of the crop south of the line.

[dalek]

Sounds good. The top cull cow here last week was 43 cents, average was 21. Top Holstein springer was 460, top fresh cow 480. And that was when the border was still going to open.

[dalek]

15444, you might want to explain that for those 70 cent dressed weight cows at Gencor, those prices were only paid (and rarely at that) for the very skinniest Holstein cows with no trim on them so they can get the extra extra-lean meat their customers want with the least work possible.

[15444]

Well dalek, I can only assume it was top quality based on the reports that Gencor submits to the OCA monthly? but with your additional info on what type of cows they were, I don't think that was the swiftest business move? Who cares if its on 1 or 50 cows...paying 70 cents on a typical canner dairy just doesn't make sense?

I realize the 70 cent mark at Gencor is almost 'mythical' to a large extent...and I think that was kind of the point I was trying to make? I was jokingly trying to figure out where Joe-2 was finding live cull cow sales in Ontario where the average was 70 cents?

[Bez]

Randy

As you know, I hail from prairie country - I am here for reasons that were far beyond my control.

That being said I am about to get under the skin of a few.

Screw the western beef producer who sits on his ass and moans about how tough it is and about how unfair Tyson and Cargill are. When they get off their asses and actually do something about their plight, then I will feel for them. They have had multiple chances to do do something, especially Alberta - they had Ralph with money available.

What have they done? Whine and moan. Where were they when they had a chance to get the provinces screaming TEST? Where were they when they had a chance to make some real change in Alberta?

They were sitting with Joe-2 in the local coffee shop wondering how they could hang on.

Maybe there were a few other folks there that had enough money to hang on for a bunch of years - playing the vulture and making plans for their own future? Picking a few bones when their neighbours went down??

They were sitting on their asses when someone (you guys) at least tried to make some changes. They criticized and did nothing constructive. Whether you were right or wrong is not the issue. The issue is that you at least did SOMETHING!!

If there had been just a few who had the balls to shut down Tyson and Cargill for a week - better two - they would have realized it was THEM that had the power - NOT the packers.

Budapest, Hungary - right now - farmers have surrounded their national government buildings and are NOT leaving until the government resigns. They are on the prowl and it looks like they are not prepared to stop. In it for the long haul and they very likely will succeed. Nothing on the media about it in Canada, but it made the Ottawa radio stations today. THAT'S determination.

There is ONLY one way to get what you want and need - that is to use the hammer you have. Blockade. Nothing in and nothing out. Quebec did it and it worked. Do not think for a minute it would not work in your part of the world. Once it started and only then - do you commence negotiations.

You can start off nice, but in the end you have to be prepared to play hard ball - or go home to Mom. Watched a few trailers get welded together with chains and then dumped on their side once in Paris - stopped traffic for a long time.

Test every damned animal, stop implants - I am not against them, the consumer in Europe is! Give them what they want and it is an easy sell. Now you can grab the European market.

Instead we try to reason with people who do not have their personal necks on the line. These folks are not stupid. They know they only have to wait us out. It is the beef producer
that is stupid - they actually think there is honour among those they are attempting to work and negotiate with. Talk about foolish.

If I hear that friggin expression "science based" again I think I will scream. It was science that told us it was safe to feed animals to cows. Now they say it is not. And at the same time they adnit the do not know what causes BSE! Grrr..

You wrote:

Damn good post BEZ. The problem in Alberta is still the respect and adoration given to ABPCCA as the National hero of the beef industry.

End quote.

That is because most of them are too lazy to show up and make a difference. Yet they are willing to complain about how bad it is for them.

You wrote:

We'll get that border open, but in the mean time look at all the packing capacity coming on line. Just leave out the American part of that last statement.

End Quote

Too late for many of us down here - land that will run a cow to an acre and sometimes less!

You wrote:

What a joke, where the hell is ABP support for new Canadian initiatives.

End quote

You tell me. Enjoying tea and crumpets with their politician friends - looking for a patronage appointment? Those first class trips to foreign countries with all the bigwigs are pretty attractive to many. I honestly do not know.

But in Ontario it took all the commodity groups to get off their butts and start screaming at Ron Bonnett - OFA prez - before he paid attention. Now the saying down here is "ONE VOICE!"

And, it is starting to work. We could still loose, but at least people who we have elected suddenly have awakened from their smug quiet little offices and realized they could be out on the street if they do not perform as they are supposed to.

You wrote:

Sorry Bez but this gang almost ran out of gas and is close to running out of money chasing this dream with little or no support from our illustrious industry leadership.

End quote

Yup - but there is an important point here. All those who do nothing but complain can go look in the mirror. They will clearly see the person who did NOTHING. At least you folks got off your asses and tried to make a difference. I have more respect for those that tried and failed than I ever would for those who did nothing and still complain about how tough life is.

Thank heavens there are a few in the west that have gumption and I pray they will succeed with their plans for slaughter - but they are not "under the guns yet" - they have to go a long ways down the road before their success is guaranteed. They need everyone to back them - not just a few.

They will experience serious pricing pressure from Tyson and Cargill. There will have to be many who are willing to go to them over Tyson and Cargill - no matter what. Otherwise they may go down within the first few years. They will need serious producer support. They had better get it or it's back to square one within a short period of time.

You wrote:

Hope everyone is enjoying those steak sandwiches from D1 and D2 cows. We'll be eating that stuff for a while yet, while we send the cream of the crop south of the line.

End quote

How true!

By the way - if there is a place down here that is putting up 70 cents for a cull - tell me where it is. I have a bunch ready to go. Put up or shut up.

Bez

[Bez]

Randy

Should have quit while I was ahead ....

I am sure you know this - but want to be clear. This comment:

"By the way - if there is a place down here that is putting up 70 cents for a cull - tell me where it is. I have a bunch ready to go. Put up or shut up."

Was directed to Joe-2 NOT towards you.

Cheers

Bez

[Incognito]

And I thought I caused *hit!

Best

[dalek]

15444, the A grades, the highest, are the ones with the least fat on them. C grades have the most. The way Gencor explained to us, 90% of A grades are dairy, 70% of B grades are dairy and 30% beef, and almost 100% of C grades are beef.
They get paid the most for the leanest beef they can get, so they pay more for the cows that will produce that lean beef with the least amount of work. With the fattest cows, no amount of trimming will get enough fat out to produce lean beef, so they pay the least for those cows.

[dalek]

Bez

"But in Ontario it took all the commodity groups to get off their butts and start screaming at Ron Bonnett - OFA prez - before he paid attention. Now the saying down here is "ONE VOICE!"

As an OFA director, that's not at all fair to Ron Bonnett. I think you're giving him too much credit. It took grassroots producers screaming at each and every individual commodity and farm group to get them together as a group. There are some of us in each of those groups who have been trying to move this idea forward for years, but there have always been commodities enjoying (temporarily) good times who could see no reason to join with others at that time. It took a series of crises across the industry to put everyone on the same page, and it's going to take continued pressure (probably even blackmail) from producers to keep the momentum going. Case in point, the OSCIA is still promoting how great Nutrient Management is for farmers, and even in the last month I've heard grain-growing OSCIA directors telling livestock producers how happy we should be with the "trinkets and beads" the province has included for funding.

[Joe-2]

Here ya go Bez!!! Manitoba Ag's Market page. Who's got the numbers wrong you or them???

http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/news/markets/livestock/

Scroll down 'till you find the Ontario prices and get back to me.

I get a kick out of some of the reading on the Ont.Cattleman's Ass. website. Something about they were "concerned" that Ontario could become a "dumping ground" for cheaper western cattle!!! How "R-calf" of my fellow Canadian producers!!! Spare me!!