time for a change

[rookie]

Bez, I agree with you.

And for those who slam the east, please go and spend some time in southern Ontario. You might learn something...

[whiteface]

Been there and liked it a lot! Some of the best friends I ever made live there...although I tried very hard to talk them into moveing to Alberta, I was told to go freeze to death! It's very easy to try and divide each other into "teams" "provinces" "regions" "professions" etc...
Competition is a good thing, cat-fights are not. We all have skills, talents, opinions and ideas to contribute and while I don't promote that it ever will be a completely harmonious, perfect world nor should it be, I do think there are times when it is easier to simply say I want to be separated from everyone rather than accept the challenge of finding a way to work with someone that you don't entirely agree with. That is a reward indeed. Have a good day all!

[Joe-2]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Blah Blah Blah about everything BUT the 30 cent/lb. difference in price between AB. and Ont. fats. What's the matter? Why all the diversion ?
Which Ontario politician was it,shortly after May 20,that stated that Ontario should be considered separate from the west as far as BSE was concerned??? The provincal AG. Minister???
And then you accuse me of not wanting to work together!!!!! hahahaha! I'm just some dumb redneck with a computer, not an elected representative of the people!!!!!
You people slay me!!!!

[smcgrath76]

Interesting discussion to say the least. ON is a different kettle of fish than AB, however so is SK. Part of the price differential is cattle is likely due to the basis or freight whatever you want to call it. Also, there are several provincial/regional plants in Ontario (some of fairly large size) and a relatively large Federal Kill plant (relative to the cattle population). This combined with a close and large urban population means that cattle should trade slightly higher than they do in the west. If you check CanFax from week to week, you will also see that this applies to feeder cattle in MB vs. AB and actually even between auction markets within AB. Those furthest from the feeding industry will typically have a reduction in bid price to compensate for freight.
There are a lot of good producers in ON. Some graze cattle year round, and nowadays many have several hundred head of cattle. Compared to our area of AB the land base cost to run cows is actually cheaper. I saw some land this fall that is trading for only about 25% more than at home and it will run a heck of a lot more cows than the 15 per quarter for 5 months many of us calculate our costs on.
I think if ON producers can command a good price for their product, and take advantage of their proximity to markets then KUDOs to them. More of us just need to figure out how to put ourselves in the same position.

[Bez]

Joe-2

You are correct in your statement that a politician from here wanted to divide to east from the west - for commodity protection purposes.

But ... You did not mention the farm groups immediately jumped to the defense of the west and decried it as completely unacceptable.

Any comments about how we the producers were on your side?

I looked at your numbers - did you look at mine? All of them?

As for slaying - well, we work together here - at least we are trying. What are you doing? Besides crying over something none of us have any control over.

Pretty weak.

Bez

[Joe-2]

Bez,you said,"As for slaying - well, we work together here - at least we are trying. What are you doing? Besides crying over something none of us have any control over."
I simply point out the huge difference between Ontario and Alberta prices and that is CRYING???? Ya OK.As far as the comments by your politician go,yes to your credit,they were quckly condemned.BUT, that initial knee jerk comment does demonstrate the underlying attitude of the east towards the west.
What am I doing?? Trying to survive this fiasco,just like everyone else.
Here's a hypothetical scenario for you......Let's pretend that I won the lottery and bought a fleet of 20 Peterbilts with cattle pots.Then I started buying fats at 90 cents out here and hauling them to Ontario where I got $1.20 for them. 30 cents a pound on a 50,000 pound load is 15 grand per load difference.Pretty good profit even after expenses.Would you be "fer it or agin' it"??? How long would it take for SOME Ontario producers to start crying FOUL??? Or start "crying" about Ontario being a dumping ground for "cheap western cattle"???
Why is this not happening for real???
I travel the trans-Canada highway quite often and have yet to see ANY loaded East-bound cattleliners.WHY?????????
Maybe I just missed them, but if this was happening in any significant volume I would think that there would not be such a huge price difference(30 cents) when historicly that differnce has been less than 10 cents. So what's the deal???

[Cattleman]

Maybe that thirty cents is not accurate. It is just a spin on the information that was collected. There probably isn't a 30 cent premium for the typical cattle that would be on a liner load from the west.

[Bez]

You - "I simply point out the huge difference between Ontario and Alberta prices and that is CRYING????"
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Free the west! Statements sound like crying to me. Hell free me from the Liberals PLEASE!

If it is truely as good as you think then ship them down. It is a free country. Just do not try to sell any cows in Quebec - they are not overly friendly to us either.

I still say you need to look at my list of sale barns - the actual head numbers and prices are there. If those "good" prices are so good - watch them closely and ship into the price.


You - "Ya OK.As far as the comments by your politician go,yes to your credit,they were quckly condemned.BUT, that initial knee jerk comment does demonstrate the underlying attitude of the east towards the west."
-----------------------------
Careful, no one - even those in this part of the world thinks like a Toronto (centre of the universe) politician.

Thanks for conceding that we came to the defence of the west. Just because some elected concrete walker speaks does not mean she speaks for all.

You - "What am I doing?? Trying to survive this fiasco,just like everyone else."
--------------------------------
No difference here.


You - "Here's a hypothetical scenario for you......Let's pretend that I won the lottery and bought a fleet of 20 Peterbilts with cattle pots."
-----------------------------------
Yahoo! Won the lottery. Uh-oh - trucks - poor investment! <grin>

You - "Then I started buying fats at 90 cents out here and hauling them to Ontario where I got $1.20 for them. 30 cents a pound on a 50,000 pound load is 15 grand per load difference.Pretty good profit even after expenses.Would you be "fer it or agin' it"???"
--------------------------------

It is a free country - if it is as good as you say, why is it not being done now? Bring 'em on down - bet you lose your lottery winnings.

You - "Why is this not happening for real?"
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Because the prices you are reading about do not come except as "one offs" They are rare and I was not feeding you a line when I said - "I have a bunch ready to go". If I could get 70 cents for culls on the hoof, I would ship the entire darned herd.

Finally - Bad day in Toronto today - someone set himself on fire at the legislature buildings during the demonstration. Whether it was a related incident I do not know.

Tractors had traffic backed up for miles and miles.

Bez

[bnyoung]

Joe 2
You'd best check your information honey, I'll be 45 in May and I can remember when I was 14, all the pots of western cattle coming into Ontario, 30 years later, they're still coming.
I had a horse in the 70's and kept him at a local farm. The couple that owned the farm used to get shipments of calves from the west because they couldn't get enough of them here in Ontario to fatten, so they imported from the west. Guess what, they're still doing it. Last week, one guy got in 5 potloads from the west. And that's just here where I am in South Western Ontario. And by the way, the ag minister you refer to was Helen John's. She was our MPP. Now, that woman, was a business woman, had no knowledge about agriculture, but she was willing to learn. And learn she did. At least the woman did something to bring agriculture to the attention of Queen's Park. No one else from here ever did. Joe, you might consider moving to Quebec and joining the Parti Quebecois or the Bloc. Take your pick. You are a true separatist indeed. By the way, I was born in Montreal, Quebec and moved to Ontario in 1974 to get away from people like you.

I AM CANADIAN AND PROUD OF IT

[Joe-2]

bnyoung,you said,"The couple that owned the farm used to get shipments of calves from the west because they couldn't get enough of them here in Ontario to fatten, so they imported from the west..."
Well golly-gee, Do you think that maybe that had something to do with the FACT that,back in them days, you could buy Western barley cheaper in Ontario than you could buy Western barley in the WEST because the freight was subsidized????(advantage-eastern feeder!!)
As for the rest of your inane post....here is my response....blah blah blah blah!!! Why the 30 cent per pound difference on FATS between Ontario and Alberta??? Why was it only about 10 cents prior to BSE??? And unless you guys have somehow moved even closer to your markets or we have magicly gotten further away,spare me the "distance to market" spin-job!!!

[cowman]

First of all let me state very clearly I am a Western Seperatist! Been that way from my Mommas knee. I make no apologees.
I realize the differences in freight rates and markets and have no problems what so ever with that? Economics 101?
My market for beef(and grain) really is with the Pacific Northwest? NOT ONTARIO OR QUEBEC?
I am, in reality, more attuned to America, than Canada? As an Albertan, where do my products go?...the USA?
Where do my values lie?...America?
I frankly couldn't give a rip about two official languages or whether we need two have two bum buddies married!
Canada has NEVER been my country...Alberta IS My Country!

[cowman]

cowman, no wonder I agree with you so often. I too, am an Albertan first...always have been. Watched the memorial service for the fallen RCMP today and once again felt the pride of being an Albertan when Ian Tyson sang Four Strong Winds.....no matter what, Alberta is home...good times and bad.

[magpie]

There in lies the problem the crow rate. When they abolished the crow, gov’t was so hell bent on cutting the deficit that there was not enough assesment on the underlying problems that would surface here in the west. Sure the so called think tanks were traveling around communities holding meeting on how the value added industries would be establishing in western provinces, but did gov’t provide the economical climate for such that to come about. All I pretty much seen so far are elevators torn down and rail lines ripped out along with deteriorating roads and highways. Had we not had a crow rate in the first place I believe a lot of this value added infrastructure would be in place now in the west and not so much in the east. It would have been put in place with far less dollars compared to this time frame. We did contribute to bring down the deficit, now we need the gov’t to provide us with a level playing field in which we can grow these infrastructures. Gov’t guaranteed loans would be one. Big C would be on such list to receive such a proposal. Testing ,start up predatory protection, and other avenues . With the right leadership we will continue to contribute to the GNP of this country.

[cowman]

I find it very strange the Canadian government can't give the Western Canadian cattle producers a government guarateed loan for a packing house but they have no problem financing car plants in Ontario?
Every year Alberta sends billions to Ottawa and what do we get in return? I wonder how come the Quebec government has money to loan out to purchase a packing house? Where did that money come from?
The west has been treated very badly in confederation. We send the money east and they use it to bring us goofy policies that work against our best interests. Thus we deal with a bunch of silly laws and numbing beuracracy that we really don't need. A prime example would be the stupid gun registry? Brought in because a bunch of hysterical liberals thought they knew what was good for southern Ontario! Well it really worked, didn't it? There are more illegal guns out there than ever before...there is a bar in Calgary where you can buy just about anything your heart might desire!
The politicians are only too happy to cater to the idiots because it gives them an opportunity to expand their little criminal organizations!

[Joe-2]

Remember Trudeau's "National Energy Program"????????
I'll certainly never forget or forgive THAT one!!!!!

Anybody watch CBC Newsworld this morning??? Isn't that just horrible to witness the shattered lives of those Easterners who have had their Florida vacations ruined because of Jets-Go???
I quit watching the coverage after 20 minutes of non-stop whining!!! Definitely a much bigger heartbreaker than BSE!!!! Those poor people. I feel their pain!!! NOT.