need pipline advice, cowman??

[whiteface]

I'll take advice of any kind from anyone with any experience of haveing a pipeline put through their land. Just the basics, what do I need to know? What will they do and what won't they? What will they wreak, do they compensate for damage, does it need to be in writing up front? What do they pay? Just a general idea of what to expect and to try and not get hosed.
I live in central Alberta near Olds so if any one knows the going rates, good companies, bad companies etc, etc, etc, I would sure appreciate it. I don't even know what questions to ask all of you so treat me like I'm two because haveing come from B.C. originally, I might as well be when it comes to knowing anything about oil, gas or pipelines.
I need you on this one cowman, I know you have experience and live pretty close to me. Fire anything at me that I need to know. Thanks in advance for any advice. Much appreciated! Have a good night all!

[rkaiser]

First thing you need to know whitey is advice is not free. This is now the world of black gold, not cow $hit.

That first sentence will cost you a beer at the next cattle show we attend on the same date.

That's about all I know.

Randy

[rsmith]

You may be able to influence the location of a pipeline so it doesn't inconvenience you or affect property value if it,s a production line. It's harder to move if its a big transmission line.

Your best bet is to get your neigbors together where the line is going and form a landowners group and consult a lawyer who specializes in farmers rights, such as Darryl Carter in Grande Prairie. You can fax him the right of way agreement and supporting documentation and he will look it over and call you or e-mail his opinion. We just have him negotiate all of ours and we are on a pipeline corridor 300 miles away. He may be able to refer someone inyour area if you prefer.

Worried about the cost? Don't be! You are entitled to legal representation and the energy company must pay for it within reason.

If you have concerns that can't be resolved by negotiation, the last resort is to go to the Alberta Surface Rights Board for a hearing. The company has the same right if they feel you are being overly unreasonable.

In the County of Strathcona east of Edmonton the going rate has been $6000 per acre for right of way and $3000 per for work space for transmission lines and recently for production lines as well. You have about the same land values and perhaps similar opportunities for acreage development.

Most important strike out "pipelines"!!! One pipeline only!!

Don't let them rush you. These things can normally take weeks.

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

[rsmith]

make sure you include a clause that forces the company to conserve the topsoil. Also, ensure that they take a wide enough right of way to keep all their equipment on it. If you have cattle and they will need to be kept elsewhere during the construction, ask upfront for compensation for having to move them or take feed to them whatever the case may be.
I would also try and get a clause that forces them to remove the pipeline if the line is ever abandoned. There are thousands of miles of abandoned pipelines through this province, through creeks etc..
Make sure you have a weed control clause as well, to ensure that the company must either do weed control or compensate you for doing so on their right of way.
I would also insist that all equipment coming onto your property is steamed prior to entry, to avoid the chance of noxious weeds.

[cowman]

whiteface: I believe your best bet is to contact the farmers advocate if you are baffled by what you are dealing with. You might want to contact a surface rights association if you have one in your area? There is a newly formed group that runs from Three Hills north into a good portion of Red Deer County...the PineLake Surface rights Action Group. They have an addendum that you can add onto a pipeline crossing. You might also phone your municipal ag service department...I assume you are in Mountain View County? Don't know if they are as up to speed as RD County or Kneehill County. The coalbed methane wells in these two counties have prompted both to really get involved.
The thing to realize is that a pipeline creates a corridor across your land where you can not do any development. There is a caveat placed on that land. I would ask for a yearly rent if I were you? Some companies do pay a yearly rent but they don't like to admit it! NOVA does on some land and recently Apache has had to pay annual rent on some land.
There are some good landmen, but in my opinion, not many! They will tell you whatever it takes to gets the lease signed!
Definitely get a "weed clause" with specific measures on dealing with weeds. My Dad had a pipeline go through in the seventies that brought in green foxtail. It cost a lot more to control it than he ever got for the pipeline! You can get some pretty nasty weeds coming in on equipment. If you don't have a written clause regarding them you will be the one doing the cleanup and you will be forced to!

[mcfarms]

I read this thread and the one by JD4ME, he and cowman have it pretty correct. We've had a great deal of activity on our farm over the last 15 years and most of what I've learned is from bad experiences. The farmers advocates office is helpful they can be reached at the gov rite number 3100000 and ask for the farmers advocate(I had the number but it's lost in the mess on the desk)
I had heard of the new group in the pine lake area it's a good idea to be part of a group like that as long as they reflect your philosophy some SRG's are too laid back and some are a little too aggresive.
On pipelines I would advise all the addendums you can to protect yourself.
Especially on that allows you to cross the pipeline and that the oil company is responsible for all costs associated with exposing and crossing that line. Someday you might decide you want a electric line or water line out in that field and you hate to have them tell you it has to be buried 8 feet below their line and you have to pay all the costs involved.

Also I have been hearing more about annual rentals for pipelines they fight it with every last breath but it may come put a grandfatjehring clause in the contract that would allow you to capture this rental if it ever becomes the norm.
I'm afraid all existing pieline contracts wouldn't qualify unless they have a clause of this nature.

[farmers_son]

Check out:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex1125?opendocument

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/ofa2621

You can search older Surface Rights Board Decisions at:
http://www.surfacerights.gov.ab.ca/SRB/decisions.aspx

The SRB decisions are public information and can be viewed at libraries in Calgary and Edmonton or at the SRB office in Edmonton. Phone the SRB for locations. Contact the Surface Rights Board at:
Phone: (780) 427-2444
Fax: (780) 427-5798

Land Agents Licensing Act
http://www.canlii.org/ab/laws/sta/l-2/20050110/whole.html

Remember that the smiling land agent is a professional who works for the oil company, not for you. Simple advice would be sign nothing, agree to nothing until you are satisfied with everything altogether; location, compensation, documentation, timing. Contrary to what you will be told, you are under absolutely no obligation to agree to a survey on your property, I would recommend you politely tell the surveyor that you will consider the survey after you are satisfied that with the overall project and its impact on your property. You are under no obligation to ever sign anything or agree to anything and you should not ever feel pressured to enter into any agreement that leaves you feeling uncomfortable. You have received good advice regarding the Farmers Advocate and Darryl Carter has lots of experience in these matters.

Something to keep in mind…although the land agent will lead to believe you are being paid for a pipeline you are really being paid for your cooperation as it is necessary for speedy construction of pipeline. Some people sell their cooperation a lot cheaper than others who get full value for their cooperation. Time is money to an oil company who already has an significant investment in wells upstream from your property and they do not get any cash flow from that investment unless they have gas passing through the pipe they want to put through your land. If you can find out how to convince the oil company that you know what you are doing then your implied ability to delay construction of the pipeline is value added to you.

[whiteface]

Thank you all for the advice and the links, contacts you provided. I am naturally concerned about what my land will look like after they're gone and future value since I do live in an area that will be more valuable and subdividable in my lifetime, restrictions pertaining to this are of great concern to me. The other concern I have is that my place has also been determined to have that fine white sand that is valued for golf courses and excavation of it in the not so far away future is being considered. I suspect a pipeline will interfere with that. The compensation I was offered is quite a bit less than $6000.00 an acre and through my awesome catch of an alfafa field that got me 4 bales to the acre last year, I'm not too happy about them tearing that up. It is Apache that wants the pipeline, I would be really interested in knowing if any of you have dealt with them, what they paid, will they fence, pay annual rent, etc, etc, etc...
The "field guy" told me their right of way permission is pretty standard and it didn't sound to me like there was a whole lot of room for negotiation, and really why would there be? I'm only a little guy with a little land, why not just by pass me altogether?
With this good weather, I'm hopeing my cows go out early and it also sounds like cows and equipment will have contact with each other unless I keep them locked up or fence my little heart out. I don't want to fence or have to find alternative grass or hay sources, this is the only land I own here, moveing them isn't an option unless I sell my soul to find more pasture. Right now that is the biggest stress I have, what to do with the darn cows while they play in the dirt?
Nothings signed, surveyors will call next week and let me know exactly where they think they want it and discuss more details then.
Randy when did you start drinking? Of course I'll buy you a beer at the next show we're at! Amazing how two people can live so close to one another and hardly ever see each other...
Hope your sale was a success!
Kinda like cowman, live so close to him, never even met him, but really appreciate the friendship here! Thanks guys and any thing else you want to tell me is welcomed! Have a good day all!

[farmers_son]

http://www.surfacerights.gov.ab.ca/downloads/retrieve.aspx?file=2004.0026.pdf

Copy of a SRB decision involving Apache. Darryl Carter represented the landowner. In this case the Board simply upheld the rate Apache paid the other landowners. But the decision also gives evidence that other landowners got better on other lines.

[Horse]

I have 3 lines on my property but I guess I got hosed acording to rsmith I only got 300 entry 1000 for easment and 500 for temp work space per acre and it amounts to I think about 3 acres per 1/4 plus damages .
They wouldnt budge on anual rent but I did have imput on locating the lines. They will pay for weed control and any future damages they may create and any ditch setelment.