pipeline advice for whiteface and all others

[JD4ME]

Hi I read whiteface's request for pipeline advice and I really have to ask the question why are we allowing ANY activity on our land at this time so that the oil companies can sell the gas and oil to the AMERICANS!!!

I have been telling any landmen that have approached us for the last year that curently I am not willing to deal with land access issues as I am too busy trying to keep my farm afloat because of this BS"e". And I don't think I can properly negotiate with them at this time.
Today at lunch the phone rang and it was some poor bastard from Wells Fargo bank trying to interest me in some crap boy did he catch it.....

I ask the question why are grumbling and moaning not getting aggressive about this am I the only Albertan thats had enough!!!, the only weapon we have left is our land itself and what the americans want that lies underneath it, do you really believe Klein has the guts to legislate unilateral surface access on all agricultural lands in Alberta. It would end the tories in the rural areas.
Throwing a few scraps at us from the energy windfall under our feet isn't going to cut it with me anymore, I'm furious and getting madder by the day, if I go to any auction sales this spring and see one american plate there they will be lucky to have enough glass in their windshield air in their tires to make it 20 feet.

Frankly I feel that we are now at war with the US it may not have guns and missles(yet)oh ya no missles) but its a war all the same.

Maybe tommorrow I'll feel calmer tonight though.......................

PS Whiteface
Theres a new surface rights group coming together east of you in that North of Three Hills area I don't have any contact info but phone the farmers advocates office or the Alberta surface rights federation they might be able to point you to them.

If your green and not used to dealing with landmen don't, not without a lot of serious homework doing talk to evryone and anyone, they are only you're friend until the contracts signed. I alway figure landmen are the guys that are too greasy to get jobs as used car salesmen and not smart enough to pass the real estate test.

[WoolyBear]

One pipeline will restrict how you can and can not use your property for as long as there is a pipeline on the property. IF I was in any position to be asked access, I would say NO WAY.......... A few paultry dollars, a rain guage or calendar every year is plain BS. While I don't know what sort of deals you get for access, it still can't replace being able to do what you wish on your own land.

And in regards to BSE and Americans........ Thats only going to make saying NO so much more fun.

Alberta might run on oil, but their souls are gone when they sign the lease
and the Devil is wearing red, white and blue.

[mcfarms]

I don't completely disagree with what you say here but the problem is two fold in achieving your goals, #1 Producers are so slow in coming together on anything in their mutual interest as they are so independant and #2 with what is going on I'm afraid the cash flow from such operations are needed to maintain viability on more than just a few farms around the province. If your idea gathers any momentum we would join in slowing down access in any way we could to try and increase pressure on others in the business sector in Canada with US connections as political pressure is what is needed to encourage a rapid appeal or other methods in resolving this. But don't forget about other countries involvement in this as well.
Best of luck

[mcfarms]

surface rights groups in Alberta have developed contracts that assist producers in dealing with resource companies.
Pipelines can certainly hamper any development the farmer wishes to do in the future, eg: building a outbuilding or subdividing a parcel for sale to someone wishing to establish a residential property.

[whiteface]

Absolutly I have a concern for a pipeline hampering any subdivision or excavation of the sand on my place or both but I also only have a teeny weeny bit of land that would be nothing for them to just go around if I was especially difficult and frankly, I'm sure you can all relate, I could really use a little cash if it didn't interfere too greatly with the rest of my life, i.e. fenceing, moving cows, dealing with weeds, re-selling my place that sort of thing. I'm looking to get as educated as possible by all of you who have had direct or indirect experiences.
While I hate to admit it, yes, I can be bought and would like to be bought by the highest bidder. If my land is more valuable running a pipeline than cattle, it must be considered. I'm looking only to learn what is the most I can ask for this right of way in terms of cash per acre, perks (like calenders! LOL! Not!), rents, favors, first-borns, you name it! What can I recieve in compensation for being co-operative? You're all right in that my land is all I have, and I'm definatly looking to not make it so easy for them that I sell my soul for nothing just like I do my cattle...
You all know how it is!
I guess I just wish their offer was a little higher. What is the going rate anyway through land just east of Olds and does one company pay more than another, that sort of thing. It's Apache that wants the line and the landman was very nice although I suspect that's exactly what he gets paid for now how do I best negotiate with him or them?
Remember you guys, I only have a spit in the bucket for land and it would be pretty easy for them to just go around me and I could really use the cash if I could negotiate something fair for both of us. Any suggestions are really appreciated. Thanks a whole bunch! Have a good day all!

[whiteface]

A pipeline on my property is being abandoned and the company has appliced for the final abandonment certificate. I am going to try and get them to remove the pipeline due to it crossing the creek, but I am sure that they won't have to do so.

[Horse]

In your origonal inquiry I told how much I get but I will state it again 300 entry 1000 easment 500 for temp work space and damages hay 4 yr production inconvience and a few misc .
But isnt it just wonderful just how forthcoming the answers are everyone is afraid or ashamed to tell how much they got hence the major problem with farming to hell with the other guy just look aftre yourself , and play into the independent game. Getting farmers together is like hearding cats.
I had an crop salesman here to discuss forage insurance one time so I called 6 neibours here to here his talk and when he asked how many cows each ran no 0ne would tell just a round about figure so no one would know how ,damm stupid can you get.

[Horse]

perhaps the reason that folks haven't shared the compensation they received is that, similar to my situation, the piepline agreement was negotiated 15 or more years ago, so the amount I received likely isn't the going rate now.

[farmers_son]

Whiteface: You are aware of the pros and cons of a pipeline on your property. You are aware of your white sand and its potential for golf courses. You are being honest with your concerns about the pipeline leaving and that you need the money.

My best advice for you is not to negotiate with the landman. The land agent will quickly pickup on your concerns that the pipeline will go around you and that you could use the money. Simply weigh the pros and cons, decide if the money he has already offered is worth the problems down the road and either take his offer or tell him to take a hike. An extra one or two hundred dollars an acre is not worth you loosing much sleep over. Everyone wishes the offer was just a little bit higher. But bottom line, either you are willing to see the line leave or you do not have much to negotiate with.

Try this...Flip a coin, heads you take their offer, tails you tell them to leave. Now while the coin is in the air ask yourself what side do you really want to be up and go with that.

Based on your description you really do have the option of telling them to leave, many people wish they had that option. So you are in control, either take the money or not. It is your decision.

[farmers_son]

farmers_son, excellent advice. Landmen are notorius for using all kinds of tactics during negotiations and unless the landowner has a lot of exerience or their own agent the will likely end up on the lower end of what they were hoping for in their contract.
As was previously suggested,landowners can form a group and ensure that they have a firm price, and similar conditions.