Alberta Beef Producers Town Hall Meeting

[kpb]

pandiana, well I think the approach you advocate has already been tried, repeatedly, by mr. kaiser and others who have basically been ignored, ridiculed and laughed at. So it's way past the time of endless chatter, in my humble opinion.
As far as being civil is concerned, I would like the ABP delegates to be polite to all of us and tell us just what exactly they've done since BSE hit us. Not talk but action. The answer, as well all know, is Nothing. There are all sorts of actions that could have been taken, from trade protests, to advocating full testing to supporting packing plant proposals, but they have done zero. So, yeah, I guess I have no respect at all for them and would like to see them disbanded. At least I wouldn't be paying them for their inaction then. And as far as these meetings go, I think we should show them exactly what we think of their organization and not have one seat filled. Why anyone in their right mind would want to go to these meetings is beyond me.


kpb

[pandiana]

kpb One voice counts as one voice. If you want to influence you must speak with many voices.

As far as what has been done by ABP, how would you know? If you don't ask questions, how do you expect to get answers?

[kpb]

pandiana, with all due respect to you, your question was "How do I know that ABP hasn't done anything", is it not self-evident that nothing has been done? Do you see any difference in our industry in the last two years, any changes that have been brought about by ABP action? Come on, people have proposed many ideas to ABP over the past two years and they've all been disregarded. And there are many things that could have been tried, as I suggested in my last post. Lastly, it is surely not my job to seek out all the little crumbs that ABP may or may not have done. It is the organization's job to actually do something--I pay them after all. And since I pay them, I think I have the right to demand some action or, in this case, the right to see them disbanded.
If you are an apologist for ABP, that's fine, but I'd like you to answer one of my questions--what concrete thing has our representative organization done to help us in the last two years? And why are kaiser's proposals, which surely do not represent just one voice as you so blithely note, always ridiculed by ABP?
This is a self-serving organization that does not represent anyone and should be disbanded.

kpb

[grassfarmer]

Pandiana, Is there a Government minister planning to attend or what minister was ABP waiting on?
The missed deadline due to Easter holiday doesn't fly as that affects this weeks deadline which will come out in print next week. Last week there were no early deadlines to my knowledge.

[grassfarmer]

the cost to hold these town hall meetings isn't excessive and as a producer I don't have a problem with part of my checkoff going to public meetings to provide producers with current information and the opportunity to ask questions.
I think that this type of meeting provides us with a much better opporunity to ask pertinent questions or make comments on the achievements or lack of them from ABP, whereas at Zone meetings we listen to campaign speeches from would be delegates.
I do hope that the chairs are full, empty chairs isn't going to send any message because many of the zone meetings also have a vast amoung of empty chairs due to apathy !!

[grassfarmer]

kpb,
I am just as frustrated as you with some of the actions of ABP over the last two years but if we are to move ahead we need to drop the "them and us" attitude. I, like many, really dislike many of the policies and some of the people in the organisation but that is the reason why I want to change it. ABP should be OUR producer organisation - it is our voice in the cattle industry to the Alberta Government (it's clearly the only one they will listen to) If we are to move ahead we must surely regain control of ABP and make it an effective voice for producers in this Province. I personally believe that BIG-C and the NFU have offered far more constructive ideas since this beef crisis began than ABP and CCA combined - but they are not regarded as spokesmen for the industry so are ignored.
As long as producers choose not to attend meetings like this and regain control we will remain a fragmented and downtrodden industry. All the talk of mobilising numbers of producers like they have down East will come to nothing in the West unless we get on the same page. We need big numbers of producers to change things, and it may not be easy, but we can start tomorrow if we have the will.

[Horse]

I am not real sure how the ABP works I have over the yrs questioned our delegates and the answer I got was you cant do nothing with that bunch ?
We have 7 delegates but only 1 sits on the board is that how it works like govmt where a few ministers tell the back benchers how to vote? Or is that just an excuse when they dont want to answer embarasing questions?

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I admire your restraint today and your future hope for this useless group. I used to also think that this organization could serve some useful function and that the ABP might actually use the thousands of dollars I send them to actually do something to help us out of our plight instead of just talking about it. But I have come to see over the course of the last two years that people like yourself or rp kaiser who have good ideas that could be tried, are simply shuffled aside by the good old boys in the ABP. Often they are treated rudely, sometimes just ignored.
There are many substantive things that could have been done by the ABP in the last two years--I'll list 5 of them off the top of my head--test animals, support local packing plants, push for multi's to open books, initiate and support trade action, work towards banning packer-owned cattle. Those are just 5 I thought of in 30 seconds--you may not even agree with them but at least they are actions--you can likely think of another 10. Why could they think of none in two years?
Now I wouldn't care if these guys weren't taking money from me to do nothing but they are so I've decided that my best work will be done in nagging the government to get this group disbanded. As far as speaking with one voice is concerned, I can tell you that this group is not the one to rally under.
Grassfarmer, even your patience, which is a whole lot greater than mine, will have an end at some point with this group.

kpb

[grassfarmer]

kbp, I agree with a most of that but the reality is you have more chance of improving it than getting rid of it.
I can conceive of no circumstance that would see ABP disbanded - who could make it happen? Alberta Government? - not likely, ABP themselves ? - not likely, any number of small opposing producer groups? - again not likely because to do that would require overwhelming producer support. If we can mobilise the numbers of producers needed to bring about the disbandment of ABP why not just use them to take over ABP instead?

[farmers_son]

Pandiana: As I said, I was playing devils advocate, stirring the pot a bit. Your point regarding attending to make a statement to ABP is well taken. However I would wonder if the ABP is listening to producers than why do we not see ABP taking steps to see packing capacity built in this province?

I would reiterate my point that if these meetings are not well attended that the cause should not be assumed to be producer apathy. If producers are not interested in what the ABP has to say than perhaps the ABP should reconsider what it is saying. So there is a message for the ABP if lots of producers turn out for the meetings and there is a message for ABP if only a few are there. The challenge is to hear both messages.

[farmers_son]

If producers choose to stay at home and not attend, they have no way of knowing if the message ABP brings is something that they agree with or not.

Better to be in the hall and voice an opinion than sit at home and have ABP representatives assume that people were apathetic or don't care how the industry is represented.

You can be sure that the Minister of AAFRD will be briefed on the outcome of the meeting and subsequent ones. If he hears that the chairs were empty he is likely going to put it down to apathy.
AAFRD will surely have representatives in attendance at all these meetings to provide feedback which will include any comments made by producers.

[pandiana]

grassfarmer, I understand that the government representative will be Lloyd Snelgrove, Government of Alberta, Chair, Standing Policy.

As far as local newspapers, just passing on what I was told. I have a call into Rob Gilgan, but haven't heard from him yet.

[pandiana]

Horse,
You are correct in that only one delegate per zone sits as a director except for 'directors at large' that are elected at the annual general meeting.

This doesn't mean, however, that the other delegates are not doing anything. In zone 6, each delegate is assigned to a committee. These include government affairs, Beef Information Centre, Technical Committee (deals with research into Animal Health,Management etc.),Public affairs and others. These committee activities are then reported back to the board.

Within the delegate and director body, ABP has 7 representatives elected to CCA. CCA is the national organization which has the ear of the federal government.

As you can see, there are many levels of communication from the grassroots up to CCA. When voices are unified, they will come from many sources and have a greater impact on those elected to speak for you.

[pandiana]

farmers_son. Is ABP listening to producers? What are the 'producers' saying. At the AGM, as Randy said, although given an opportunity to speak the delegate body was not particularly inclined to support this proposal. Why? Maybe because they were influenced by the concensus of those that expressed an opinion that this was not they way to go. It is and has been very clear that ABP has had increased packing capacity as a mantra in order to work towards self sufficiency. But which of the proposals will work? Which proposal should ABP back...the one that has the most support of ABP delegates (some with vested interests)? It is a very difficult proposition. I have no doubt that if one proposal was unanamously supported by the grassroots producers and this support was communicated strongly to ABP, directly or through their representatives, they would hear. Whether than can change their rules I don't know but the Alberta government and the Feds would also get the message. They are waiting for you!

[pandiana]

kpb wrote "There are many substantive things that could have been done by the ABP in the last two years--I'll list 5 of them off the top of my head--test animals, support local packing plants, push for multi's to open books, initiate and support trade action, work towards banning packer-owned cattle. Those are just 5 I thought of in 30 seconds--you may not even agree with them but at least they are actions--you can likely think of another 10. Why could they think of none in two years? "

These past few years have been a roller coaster ride for all levels of our industry and every sector has been stressed, financially and otherwise. We all want this thing fixed.

Many solutions have been proposed, even within this forum. Which is the right one?
There is no doubt that everyone expected the border to open on March 7th (except R-Calf). As a result, although there were contingency plans proposed, no one expected they would have to be enforced. I understand that following the border closure, ABP met by conference call for several days developing their plan of action.

You might be surprised, kpb, on just how many of these 'solutions' you proposed have been or are now being worked on. I think you need to ask the right questions of the right people and if you don't get the right answer, keep asking.