backgrounding calves on swaths

[kpb]

While out finishing the feeding it crossed my mind that the numbers I gave in the earlier post could not be right. Everything I do is based on silage so it's hard to cut out the costs of the swath grazing we do but obviously if we take 8 tons of silage off a quarter, there will be roughly half that of dry matter or 4 tons so say 8000 lbs. At a cost of $80.00 per acre to put the crop in, that is .25 for a dry cow's daily feed of 25 lbs in swath grazing. However I think they likely eat 30 lbs in reality and maybe waste another 5 lbs per day so say a cost of .35 per dry cow per day compared to a silage cost of .50 per day before feeding costs and, with hay at $30 a bale (1200 lbs) a cost of .62 per day. There are many other factors to consider on top of just cost.

kpb

[grassfarmer]

Interesting information, kbp when you talk of using essentially the same yields in your silage and swathgrazing operations does that mean you seed your swathgrazing stuff at the same time or do you seed later, maybe late June as most folk do for swaths? It strikes me that seeding in late June you forgo a lot of growing days in an already short growing season.
I agree also with your comment on starting your tractor to feed some animals and it being just as easy to feed the rest while you are at it. If you have the tractor already and use it 60% less it doesn't save that much money. Great if you can do everything with just a truck or a team of horses but it's not worth having a tractor parked in the shed, swathgrazing and claiming you are efficient because you only use a bale truck to feed with.

I had been contemplating setting aside a quarter for half swathgrazing / half silage on a permanent basis. I don't have water on it and a frostfree nosepump would provide an option if we used the same land every year.
I've spoken to many advisors and they all tell me it is a bad move as it is unsustainable. I'm talking about alternating which half is silaged and which is swathgrazed every year, possibly putting a legume like peas in the silage crop,using adequate purchased fertiliser,alternating oats and barley, zero tilling the crops and also feeding on the land once the swaths are finished. Still they say it is unsustainable and a really bad idea - do you guys agree with that?
There argument is it will deplete the land too much, mine is it will deplete it less than the guys round here that take crops off year after year with conventional tillage and little or no fertiliser.
Their alternative is to use swathgrazing rotationally on the whole place but with electric fences all over the place it makes cultivation difficult and I don't feel the need to reseed the whole place. It's far cheaper and easier to manipulate the pasture I already have by intensive grazing.

[cowman]

I can't see why that wouldn't work. We have land here that has been continuous cropped for many decades. Fertilize to a soil test and control the weeds. Usually bale the straw at least every other year. Yields are as good(if not better) than ever.
I sort of like the idea of swath grazing, although I'm not too keen on electric fences! But I do wonder if the economics are really there? I've often wondered about the economics of silage versus green feed too? I believe we need to consider the after harvest grazing/salvage from silage/greenfeed/grain? We rely on at least ten days after harevest.
I also believe people feed their cows to much. A dry cow doesn't need all that protein that decent alfalpha hay has in it? A respectable timothy/fescue hay should have 7% protein, which should be totally adequate to meet her needs? I also believe timothy has more energy value than alfalpha? The old timers used to insist that work horses could work hard on a diet of timothy.

[cswilson]

Grassfarmer if that isn't sustainable I don't really what is. I think that would work. When we used to swath graze we always underseeded some rye and sweet clover with it for grazing-and back when it rained we got some greenfeed off it the next year also.

[cswilson]

cowman, you hit on a very interesting point. Oldtimers fed timothy hay to their workhorses and likely to their cows as well, and you can bet that the cattle didn't get any fancy protein blocks and minerals either. Mind you the cattle were british breds and not the high performing exotics. Folks were happy with a 400 weaning weight back in the olden days too.
I think that one difference between silage and greenfeed is the waste of the courser straw on the greenfeed vs the fact that the cattle clean up most of the silage.
I am feeding a lot of baled oats with regrowth grasses in it. It is super feed but I went light on it prior to calving. The cows that have calved are getting a lot of it now with some good hay and tubs of agriblend molasses protein supplement and are doing great.
Spent the night up walking back and forth to the barn waiting for a heifer to get busy and have her baby. Little grandson asked if I was outside looking for the Easter Bunny !!!
Didn't see the bunny, but say the eyes of a coyote gleaming in the light from the spotlight a couple of times.
Can't shoot in most directions from the farmstead due to neighbours houses being pretty close !!!

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I agree with cs wilson and cowman, your plan is very sound and should work with no problems. We've taken silage off the same land here for 15 years (at least) with no reduction of yields.
Cowman, I think you are right all the way through your post. We feed a lot of silage here and it is, in my opinion, the best feed for feeding calves because it is so easy to mix barley, supplement and mineral well so that all the calves get the same ration. We have a feed mill too so that it is easy to put in the exact amount of barley you need. But I think silage is generally too rich a feed for cows.


kpb

[grassfarmer]

Thanks folks for the encouragement, I thought I had a fair plan but was discouraged when it was given the thumbs down by Alberta Ag forage specialists, Prairie seeds rep and Grey Wooded forage assn. rep. I do value opinions from people actually on the land - sometimes these book smart types have impressive knowledge but they don't always have knowledge AND wisdom.

[Cattleman]

Emerald, you will have to get yourself one of those camera's to set up in the barn or shed, barn works well if you put the animal in a pen just have to switch channels on the TV and you are checking an animal!! A wonderful investment for $200 plus the cable!! Saved many of trips on checking/disturbing the animal. The reduced "disturbing" part is as valuable as the convenience.