Still the Apathy

[kpb]

15444 is exactly right in all of the points raised. Grassfarmer and RKaiser, how many producers in Alberta are full-time farmers who depend on the price of the calf for their sole source of living? Not many I'd say, and how many of those full-timers are planning to still be in the business in three or four years?

Most of the full timers that I know are like myself, getting old with lots of equity and getting a little tired. How many of us do you guys think will even be in the business in, say, five years?
Nobody I know has any faith in the ABP so it's hard for anyone to be enthusiastic about going to a meeting for a group that purports to represent us but has done nothing since BSE hit.

It's also true that the cow-calf guy hasnt been hit all that hard yet anyways. Apart from the fact that he can't sell his culls for a decent price, the price he's been getting for his calves has not been that bad. I think all of that is going to change this fall because the feeders continue to take a licking but it hasn't happened to date.

As 15444 states, all the handouts just encourage the part-timers to stay in the business. I hate to say this, and I know a lot of guys will not like it, but as long as we are a business that has an easy entry point so that part-timers and hobby farmers can easily get in, the full timers will always be hard pressed to make a living. It's pretty simple--when you produce a commodity the producers that survive will be those that do not care what price they produce the product for.

Unfortunatly, grassfarmer, that isn't the 10% most efficient--it's the producers who have off-farm income because they don't care at all about efficiency or the price they receive for their calves. It doesn't matter much to them because it is not their main income source. That's why, grassfarmer, chasing the goal of top 10% efficiency is a losing effort and will not save the full-time farmer. This is the same red herring we have been chasing for 50 years by increasing production--all it does is make the fertilizer companies rich--a full time farm that has to depend on prices to live cannot compete in the same business with a part-timer no matter how efficient it is.

Being efficient is a good thing and something we strive for but, by itself, it will not enable you to compete with people who are not efficient and do not care if they make money or not. These, by the way, are the same people who make up most of our industry and who do not care much about changing things for the better in our industry. Farming to them is like hunting to lots of us--it's a lot of fun but you don't expect to make a living from it.

Is it any wonder that we can't get the government to take us seriously?


kpb

[grassfarmer]

15444, Producers missed the chance to alter the balance of ABP directors last Fall. In my zone we ran three candidates against the sitting ones and two got elected. I don't recall if there was another zone in the province that contested every sitting candidate, many were just re-elected by acclaimation. If producers had been wanting change they could have had new "smart candidates" contesting every position and today close to 50% of the ABP delegates elected by producers could have been working for us instead of against us. If producers had done that and repeated it this fall they could have replaced the other half - eventually the leadership would have been changed. Missed opportunity.

kpb, I agree with your point about part-timers but would point out that when I said in the top 10% for efficiency I wasn't talking only about technical efficiency. I meant all round business efficiency and that includes playing the Gov. programs right, not having a large debt to equity ratio as well as being good technically at producing beef for the lowest cost. I still believe there is a position for full time producers in this category - I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't believe in it.

[wd40]

We still havn't been hurt enough yet.

[15444]

I never have been totally sure as too how the ABP was structured, so I went a researchin'. Interesting to note just how much freedom Alberta beef producers have in electing their representatives. BIG difference from Ontario. I'm very jealous. But as I see it, with the turnout your seeing at your meetings, it won't be long before the ABP will want to 'save money' (i.e. take more for themselves) by restructuring the ABP to mimic the OCA, an organization of elite producers who make all the decisions in Ontario. There is no voice for any cow/calf producers, big or small, in Ontario anymore. If only the small producers, myself included, had known what lying scumbags were involved in the OCA, we could have stopped the destruction of the OCA as a cow/calf organization.

[15444]

The Zone 6 meeting in Breton last fall was very well attended, compared to many over the past few years. Grassfarmer, that interest is likely why there were some changes in this Zone.

[grassfarmer]

Yes, Emrald at least at that level democracy did work. Shame most of the other zones didn't bother to participate.
I'm noticing some geographic trends in this crisis - it looks to me like there is some kind of ABP power base in southern Alberta - how often do you hear a hardship story from the old established foothills ranch areas? Even out in that dry east country there has been good backing of existing ABP reps. All the protest seems to be in this central Alberta cow and marginal grain country.
Maybe until the day comes when there are groups of motivated people at meetings in Nanton, High River or Lethbridge we won't be taken seriously by Government? Are more people in these areas ranching paid for or leased land?

I wish we could harness the work and thoughts of Rick Paskal on behalf of the feedlot sector alongside that of the cow/calf producers represented on this forum. We are constantly fighting two different battles yet the "enemy" is the same. Another waste of energy and resources.

[grassfarmer]

Grassfarmer, the historic ranching country of AB. has always had a significant voice on issues involving the cattle industry. Western Stockgrowers comes to mind, and I think that their main membership base for years came from the southern ranching community.
The dryland part of the province, Special Areas, County of Paintearth area etc. have always elected some fairly high profile ABP reps.
Years ago Tom Thurber was the Chairman of ABP, that is the last time we have had what I would call strong representation from the west central AB area.I would like to see the ABP Zone reps hold town hall meetings more often than at the fall election time. I don't know if they have a budget to do so, but I am sure that they could work with local producers to help rent a hall and buy a few donuts and coffee. If the zone reps were more visable throughout the year perhaps there wouldn't be such apathy in the fall.
It seems that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, not that I am calling the southern ranching community a squeaky wheel!!
When Alberta Agriculture began the Ag Summit process several years ago, they invited 100 LEADERS in the Agricultural Industry to a private think tank. I asked for the names of the LEADERS and there wasn't one from almost the entire area of West central AB. I sent a comment to the powers that be expressing my dismay that a huge area of agricultural producers were not represented at discussions that were intended to lay out the future of the agricultural industry in the Province.

Guess I made enough noise, they invited me to participate and I did.

It takes a lot of work to be taken seriously in the agricultural industry and particularly in the cattle industry. Last livestock census I saw showed the majority of the cow/calf operations were located from Red Deer north. The feeding industry as we all know is in the south.
I have to wonder if we would hear the negative comments about ABP if the border was open and we were still enjoying the prices of the pre BSE days.

[farmers_son]

“I have to wonder if we would hear the negative comments about ABP if the border was open and we were still enjoying the prices of the pre BSE days.”

I would instead ask why we are hearing these negative comments about the ABP. Could it be because ABP has 100% focused on reopening the border to live cattle and neglected the home front which is building packing capacity in this province, instead leaving it up to the marketplace to sort out on its own. Could it be because the ABP/CCA steadfastly refused to accept there was a risk of BSE in Canada and pursued policies that saw our industry become ever more dependent upon live cattle trade across international borders while ignoring the risk to the industry if that border closed. Could it also be because the ABP/CCA are set upon maintaining the status quo, and have not articulated a vision for the industry post-BSE. Could it be because the ABP/CCA has not indicated that they are able to react to change.

I am frankly surprised at the patience Alberta’s cattle producers have shown towards ABP and the CCA. The negative comments are not inappropriate.

[SASH]

I think that apathy is just part of the culture in the west. I've never seen a westerner get fired up the way those boys in Quebec do. Its just a very laid back, whatever kind of mentality. Seems to be bred in the bone. I've heard before that the toughest market in North America to establish a new product in are Manitoba and Saskatchewan. People seem to just accept the status quo and are not really innovators in the marketing sense. The other thing I think is that there seem to be so many plants that are looking for start up money right now that anybody who wants to invest has lots of options.

[pandiana]

Emrald1 Probably around 50 people when I came in for the first part of the meeting (late getting chores down as we are lambing and calving) and missed some of the reports from Eric Butters, Lloyd Snelgrove and Chris Given. Tony Saretsky did the CCA report and I understand he talked about his trip to Cuba and the opening of their border to Canadian cattle.

Ted Schroeder's talk I think could be summed up by saying that if Canada wants to regain its global marketing position it must concentrate on making a produce that meets or exceeds the markets expectations. He didn't imply that there was only one kind of market but whether you niche market for hormone free, grass fed, more tender, grain fed or whatever, to succeed you must be as good or better than the competition. He was a good speaker but I hazard a guess that,like myself, many had heard this message several times before.

He said one thing I found interesting, however. He said that Canadians had some market advantages, one of which was that we had a more homogenous gene pool (i.e. no ears, I think). Secondly, he commented again that, although we have an advantage of traceability, we had better not rest on our laurels as Brazil and Australia are hot on our heals. He also said that India will compete with Canada as the worlds number 3 exporter in the near future! He also commented that BSE has given both Brazil and Australia a huge advantage. One thing that bothered me was that he didn't take into consideration that environmental sustainability concerns all producer countries and that unlimited growth is not an option.