Fair Market Beef

[farmers_son]

I should point out here that I would love to give R-Calf a kick in the butt as much as the next person. But there are a few more south of the border who could use a swift kick too.

I would ask if R-Calf is really the enemy. Kato suggests that R-Calf has their own personal judge. That may be true but read the transcript of the injunction hearing at:

http://www.r-calfusa.com/BSE/Hearing%20Transcript.pdf

The lawyer for the U.S. Department of Justice representing the USDA was either very poorly briefed or was trying to throw the case. The lawyer, a Ms Olsen made the rather dramatic statement before Judge Cebull that Alberta beef was high risk for BSE. All the blame cannot be pinned on R-Calf and Cebull.

Know thine enemy. R-Calf is only a convenient fall guy. The USDA keeps feeding them tidbits that they know a rapid dog like R-Calf is going to bite. It has been my impression that Cebull is not in R-Calf’s pocket, he may be in the pocket of the two U.S. Senators who nominated him and Bush who appointed him. If you follow Cebull’s decisions he seems to be sensitive to the federal government’s wishes when making his decisions.

Take R-Calf to court if you want. I think your money would bring you better returns by buying 20 lottery tickets. The downside for me is this action distracts producers from seeking solutions at home and also holds R-Calf up as the target when I think the target south of the border still remains the Bush administration and the USDA who are taking their sweet time opening the border for purely political reasons. Blame R-Calf if it makes you feel better but lets not forget the deliberately ham handed manner the USDA has handled the BSE issue and ask yourself if either the USDA is incompetent or do they really not want the border to open.

I believe R-Calf is just a pawn. In street terms you are going after the corner drug dealer while the USDA drug lord is laughing all the way to the bank. And if this action fails, R-Calf is stronger. Choose your battles carefully.

[rkaiser]

Good points farmer_son, and I believ you are right about the USDA-------------But damn the torpedoes, we need all need a mental boost.

I am soory that I do disagree with you on the point of building up Rcalf if this case is lost. AND if this is what you think, and you also think Rcalf is only a pawn, and nothing to worry about, what would building them up matter.

We can spin away on this one if you like farmer_son, but the point is Canadian ranchers finally have something to cheer about, and I for one, need to see a little blood from someone other than a Canadian producer.

[rkaiser]

Sorry guys, my automatic speed typer wasn't working very good that time, I hope you get my point though.

[kato]

I have also questioned the motives of the USDA in all this. I read the transcript of the trial, and didn't think the USDA lawyers did much of a job. There is much much more to all this than meets the eye. To depend on the USDA to "do the right thing" is a waste of time in my opinion. Best to see it for what it is, and to realize that no one is looking out for us, but us.

USDA could very well be using R-Calf as a pawn, but I believe that the anti-meat lobby groups that R-Calf has signed up with are also using them as a pawn. That could be a much bigger problem in the long run.

If/when a positive case shows up there, these so called allies will be quoting 'American cattlemen' from R-Calf all over the media in their campaign to diminish beef demand for every one of us on both sides of the border.

In the meanwhile, if we don't stick up for ourselves we are only asking for more abuse.... and we will get it, of that we can be sure. Bullies do not respect the bullied.

[Cedar]

In reading some of the transcript of the R-calf injunction hearing, I have noticed: in paragraph (or whatever you call that), line 24, Mr. Edwards states: "Starting the 2nd of January, we discovered one, and then, a week or ten days later, discovered another." Here, according to the dates, he is obviously referring to the Canadian cases of bse, then, why, why, why, pray tell, does he say "we"..????? Since he is representing r-calf, what in the world does he mean by "we" discovered these cases??? It was my understanding that the cfia discovered those cases, or, at least someone in Canada! Did he slip up? What's going on? What does r-calf have to do with discovering bse cases in Canada???? (Or maybe I'm just getting too suspicious in me ol' age!!???)

[farmers_son]

The more thought I give this suit in Montana court, the more I am concerned about it. I appreciate that the thought of possibly giving R-Calf a black eye at $20 per swing is really attractive to Canadian producers. But I am very concerned.

You people seem to have a much higher regard for the Montana judicial system and its ability to issue fair and unbiased, informed decisions than I have. What we are talking about here is engaging in a debate with R-Calf, in Montana court of all places, on the safety of Canadian beef.

I hear Kato’s comments “The crux of the matter is that if Canadian cattle producers sit by and let the lies be spread, then we are by default admitting that there 'may' be truth to them. “ I agree. Other than I would add that perhaps the sad reality of the matter is that Canadian beef producers are not going to get a fair hearing in Montana court. Whether it is Dick Cebull or Boss Hogg that hears the case, a Montana judge is not going to rule in favour of foreign competitors and against salt of the earth, grass roots Montanans.

I am not sure that we want to even get into a debate in the judicial system on the safety of Canadian beef in Canadian courts, but I am darn sure we do not want that debate to take place in Montana court. The decisions these judges make are at best a crap shoot but when the decision on the safety on Canadian beef is made in a red neck, back country Montana court the judges decision will be a foregone conclusion. The USDA and the NMA is one thing, but Canadian beef producers would not stand a chance.

[FRENCHMAN]

come on guys ..either we stand up and fight toe to toe with them peckerwoods..or kiss the box beef trade good byeDo you think R-calf is going to stop until they have closed the box beef market.

I challenge everyone here to post that at every auction mart in this country and to show it to everyone that has lost money as a result of the border.

End of Rant.sorry

[farmers_son]

Unfortunately we don’t get to fight toe to toe with…you know. I’d love the chance.

Instead we Canadians would have to hire Montana lawyers to debate the safety of our Canadian beef product against other Montana lawyers before a Montana judge. We should not assume for a minute that this is a fair and level playing field here. It is stacked against us all the way. This is a fight we are sure to loose.

Everyone knows our beef is safe but a Canadian arguing our beef is safe in Montana has about as much chance of winning as an Iraqi immigrant arguing he is not a terrorist. These people are not into reason and logic, it is about America first, greed and self interest.

[SASH]

Not all the people in Montana are opposed to the Canadian border opening. Alot of people in the States are smart enough to see that R-CALF is setting them up for a fall. Where would you try to launch a court case? They would just ignore it if it was in Canada. I think that if the people involved thought we didn't have a chance of winning, they wouldn't be spending the time and effort to go through the process. Will it be fair? I don't know but we can always appeal if its not. That seems to be the American way. This shy, aw shucks attitude of ours is getting us nowhere and trusting the Liberal government to get us out of this... well I guess I'd as soon try the courtrooms in Montana.

[mb_rancher]

Sash,

If our side prevails in this lawsuit who is rewarded the damages? Does it go to Jim Murray or the Canadian Cattle industry?

[15444]

Considering that individual producers chipped in, I would hope that the instigators (ie Jim Murray and John Morrison) would get a healthy portion, and the rest split evenly amongst those that joined the suit.

[rkaiser]

I say give it all to Jim Murray. He sounds like the kind of guy who would use it to build a slaughter plant, maybe even one with BSE testing for Japan.

[farmers_son]

Thought you may be interested in this news item regarding Jim Murray.

http://www.portageonline.com/AgriculturalNews_alt_main.html

Portage Farmer Confronts Federal Ag Minister Andy Mitchel
2005-03-30

Portage La Prairie cattleman Jim Murray, drove to Winnipeg Tuesday night to attend a press conference organized by Federal Agriculture Minister Andy Mitchel. He told the minister the money is not enough to help those people who are in trouble. He says there is getting to be more of those guys every day. Banks are saying we have given as much as we can give. The $19.00 per head for cattle producers based on 2003 or $3.00 per acre isn't enough. He adds the worse this problem gets the less money is being directed toward it. Murray says producers don't want to look like beggars. He says put this money into slaughter plants and get them up. He adds the bureaucracy on this is appalling. Murray says he was disappointed the minister refused to answer his questions. He says he asked the minister how much of the $488 million has been put into slaughter plants. He said they have 2 plants up and going. Murray said he told Mitchell he had not answered his question because most of that $480 million is just a loan guarantee, there is no money out of pocket. Murray says he is involved with a group called Fair Market Beef that is launching a class action suit against R-Calf for 7 million dollars per day. He says in the 2 weeks they have been going they have already had R-Calf call them asking them to back off until after the July court date is heard.

[rkaiser]

I say Jim Murray for president, or maybe vice president, and Cam for pres.

[FRENCHMAN]

farmers son ....Unfortunately we don’t get to fight toe to toe with…you know. I’d love the chance.

Instead we Canadians would have to hire Montana lawyers to debate the safety of our Canadian beef product against other Montana lawyers before a Montana judge. We should not assume for a minute that this is a fair and level playing field here. It is stacked against us all the way. This is a fight we are sure to loose.

Frenchman..Nothing personal .So lets all just quit then ? thats the problem with farmers...no one believes they can do anything.so they don,t even try.

Everyone knows our beef is safe but a Canadian arguing our beef is safe in Montana has about as much chance of winning as an Iraqi immigrant arguing he is not a terrorist. These people are not into reason and logic, it is about America first, greed and self interest


frenchman.. again nothing personal...But at some point Canadian farmers have to grow some balls...I will not sit by and let R-Calf slam the box -beef trade door in our faces without a fight.If nothing else it may buy us time to find other markets for our beef .