Twins

[grassfarmer]

Emrald1, I appreciate your honesty about your good cow and was genuinly asking about the offspring's feet. Cowman,don't put words in my mouth ;o)!!

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer I guess I get a bit grumpy when it looks as though my cowherd is being judged by someone that has never seen them. I have always taken the cowbusiness seriously and am the first to admit that the last thing anyone should do is keep animals with any negative trait, bad disposition, poor udders, prolapse problems or bad feet....I have culled good looking cows out of my herd because they were volatile when they calved, and I don't mean just a bit nasty ! I have made steers out of excellent bull prospects because they didn't have all the qualities I would look for in a bull that I was buying for my own herd.
I appreciate your comments and certainly appreciate your obvious committment to the cattle industry.

[15444]

I have a cow that is a 'D' that is going this year, although due to age, not feet. Horrid feet, always too long, especially the back. But she never passed on that trait to her offspring as the senior herdsire is her son and he sires some of the best feet in the entire herd. She wasn't fed heavy as a calf either. I blame certain genetics, ie the bulls. I had a paternal sister to that D cow and she developed bad feet as well, but similarly, it never showed up in her offspring.

What is all this talk about feet trimming??? Let 'em grow and they eventually break off. Even though 90% of our purebred and commercial herd have perfect feet, I don't freak out if some of the best cows have poor feet. Breed it out, that's what we did.

[cowman]

Well sorry if I offended you! What I was trying to get across was the fact that the way the purebred game is played is not helpful for overall efficiency in cattle? Sure that 1400 lb. yearling is pretty but he was pushed hard to get there.
I suspect the folks at beefbooster have got it pretty close to right? Anything that needs help gets culled? All the calves are fed a moderate growing ration at a central feedlot. No shows. No ribbons. No big prices.
A few years ago there was a big purebred outfit selling a "shark cage"...supposed to protect you from the cow while you worked over a calf. I was watching the video at a farm show and the rep asked me what I thought. I told him if it was me I'd sell that darned cow as she was completely psycho! Quite frankly we don't need wild crazy cows in the cow business...but then she probably produced a $4000 calf every year and somebody buys it, right? So for this outfit the bottom line is they make good money on a high strung cow!
That is the purebred business.

[cowman]

I have heard of a lot more wrecks in the commercial side of the business than I have in the purbred side as far as people getting hammered by a snotty cow !!! Neighbour lady has been rammed into a fence twice in the last two calvings and they don't have a purebred cow on the place !!!
A manufacturer in this area has been building and selling calf cages for years and they are being purchased by commercial operators vs purebred !!
Folks use them to tag or treat calves out in the field and as far as I am concerned any mama cow has the potential to protect her baby, and only a fool would think that it can't happen in any herd at any time !!

I have never pushed bull calves because to do so is only asking for problems as a two year old . Lots of bulls have no feet left because they were pushed the hell out of as calves to get to an impressive yearling weight. That isn't genetics that is feed bucket !!!

[grassfarmer]

I have no problem using a home build "shark cage" in fact I used it this morning to tag the calf of an 18 year old purebred Luing. I've used it twice so far this year and have about 40 calves on the ground. The only ones I need it for are cows that were bought in off extensive ranches where they were worked on horseback. It took these cows a while to get used to being in 2 acre paddocks in summer and to have a person walking through them on foot! I feel no shame in admitting using this - I'm not breeding wild cows - someone else did and I bought them! Their calves are always very quiet with my handling. It's a safety issue and there is no way I'm risking getting a broken arm or leg which would hamper me for a year by taking risks with newborn calves. I also catch and tag (and weigh purebreds) all the calves on day one as do Soderglen. How many ranchers that condemn the "shark cage" don't tag until branding or weaning?

[cswilson]

So far we've the only set was a slip out of Megan's district champion 4H heifer-guess we just aren't a show outfit. As far as feet go-preety is as pretty does-I'm very selective when buying bulls as too feet but our poorer footed cows get bred to bulls we wouldn't keep a heifer off of. I just toured two studs in Alberta and saw alot of very unsound cattle of all breeds-on our outfit udder soundness is probably more important than feet but both are pretty critical when they calve on their own not much room for error.

[cswilson]

grassfarmer, you certainly do not have to be ashamed for admitting that you use common sense when handling your animals !!
Years ago and possibly still now in some operations cattle were tied to a post for any treatment, calving assistance etc., that doesn't mean that using a maternity pen or squeeze isn't a lot wiser,and using a calf cage is just another way of making handling animals safer !!!
When I work a cow, or treat a calf I want to be able to do so safely, and concentrate on the task at hand, not how fast I can move away from flying hooves or some old mama that has decided to send me into the next county !

[poto]

8 sets out of 120 cows so far.

[cowman]

Well you can have your damned old wild cows and spend your time trimming feet and milking cows...that is your right...so enjoy!

[cowman]

cowman, don't know who you were directing your message to...sure sounds like you have been eating grumpy pills !!!!

[cowman]

emerald: Just stirring the pot! Got to keep things interesting?