Tories Want Into Gong Show

[farmers_son]

Tories seek legal standing in U.S. mad-cow case
CTV.ca News Staff

The Conservatives said they'll try to persuade an American judge to let them take part this summer in a Montana court case -- one that could decide whether the U.S. border will ever open again to live Canadian cattle.

Tory trade critic Belinda Stronach made the announcement this morning, accusing the Liberal government of not doing enough for Canadian beef producers hit hard by the mad cow crisis.

Stronach said her party will ask a U.S. federal judge for intervenor status in a July court hearing in Montana.

The U.S. government closed its border to live cattle imports from Canada in 2003 after a single Canadian cow tested positive for BSE, or mad cow disease.

The border was to reopen to live cattle on March 7 of this year, but that was delayed by a challenge from R-CALF -- a U.S. cattle industry lobby group.

A Montana judge sided with the cattleman's group and issued an injunction preventing the opening of the border.

The July hearing will decide whether that temporary injunction should be made permanent or expanded to include other beef products from Canada.

Stronach said the Liberal government "chose the wrong legal option" when it sought amicus status at the July hearing.

Amicus status allows little more than the privilege of submitting a written brief at a hearing; whereas intervenor status involves actual participation, she said.

"Someone has to defend the interests of hard-working, suffering Canadian farmers and ranchers" in the Montana court, Stronach added.

"If (Prime Minister) Paul Martin won't get the job done because he is too distracted by his own political misfortune to govern, we will step up to the plate."

Earlier in the week, the prime minister warned that U.S meat packers will pay a long-term price for policies which led to the closure of the border to Canadian beef.

He said the closed border is only strengthening Canadian meat packers who will only become stronger and less dependent on U.S. plants.

"The net result of that is we will have the capacity once the border opens up to export substantially into the United States,'' Martin told an audience of foreign-policy experts in Ottawa on Monday.

"U.S. processors are (going) to suddenly realize that in fact what has happened has not been in their interest."

It's estimated that the mad cow crisis has cost the Canadian cattle industry up to $7 billion.

With a report from The Canadian Press

[grassfarmer]

Good for Belinda, the more the merrier.

That's quite the quote from Martin "The net result of that is we will have the capacity once the border opens up to export substantially into the United States" .... aren't we exporting substantially into the US now - does he not know that? Up there with the belief that Canada is building huge slaughter capacity right now. Reality is only the two US based transnational corporations are doing that. Look at Canada Farm Direct - backing off their closing date for their share offering again because they are only half way to their financial target. Reality, in my mind, is that there is absolutely nothing happening at this moment to benefit Canadian producers. We are substantially worse off than we were two years ago.

[kato]

Didn't Judge Cebull already turn down Canadian involvement in this?

[cakadu]

Yes, he did. He denied intervenor status to the Canadian government. What the Tories are upset about, according to Rick Caisson(?) - MP for Sask I believe - is that they did not appeal the decision.

Not wanting to be too cynical here, but given that the Tories - at least up to this point - have not had much of an agricultural platform, how much of this is posturing for an impending election? These same Tories who voted down looking into the packers books.

Heard Mr. Caisson also say that we could have the slaughter capacity to kill every animal in Canada. How and where does he think that is going to happen? Given that farmers_son has pointed out that the beef herd is now estimated to be up over 15 million and grassfarmer saying that even CFD is putting back its timelines because of a lack of funding, where on earth does this fellow think all this slaughter capacity is going to come from?

Even if several plants were to get funding today - it would still be twelve to twenty-four months before they would be up and running - not to mention finding the funds to keep operating as they ramped up.

I wonder how many of the MPs truly understand what is happening in agriculture? Do they care beyond winning back a seat in the impending election? Remember, politicians don't look long term, they look to the next election and no further.

[grassfarmer]

I don't have much respect for most of the current politicians either Cakadu but the constant jibe at the Conservatives for not supporting the Government's move to look at the packers book isn't really fair. Sure they voted against the move but it was only a move to garner votes for the Liberals anyway - even if the Conservatives had voted with the Government the Parliament would have been dismissed for the election before the inquiry took place. So technically the Conservatives didn't prevent the inquiry going ahead - it was never going to happen then anyway.
More to the point has the new Government revisited the issue? I haven't heard a word about it. It looks to me like it was just posturing by the Liberals although why the Conservatives voted against it I'm not quite sure. Neither party will have any interest in upsetting the transnational corporations as their post political careers and paybacks might be at stake.

[farmers_son]

I think there is a lot of truth in the statement that the Liberals only were wanting to look at the packers books to garner votes in western Canada.

But is this move by the Conservatives any better? Just crass vote getting. This is all about the Conservative party and not at all about producers hard hit by BSE.

Stronach said the Liberal government "chose the wrong legal option" when it sought amicus status at the July hearing as amicus status allows little more than the privilege of submitting a written brief at a hearing; whereas intervenor status involves actual participation. Whatever makes Stronach think Dick Bullock would have ever agreed to intervenor status if he turned down something less?

Stronach and International Trade Critic Finley will be joined in the action by Rick Casson, Member of Parliament for Lethbridge (Alberta) and Gerry Ritz, Member of Parliament for Battlefords–Lloydminster (Saskatchewan). Other MPs may join the action in future…then again, maybe not.

Regarding the Conservatives agriculture policy, Stephen Harper spoke on the Conservatives view of agriculture in Quebec. See:http://www.conservative.ca/documents/20050118-BeauceAgriculture.pdf

I see no mention of more packing plants in any Conservative policy statements. I have never heard the Conservatives support increased packing capacity, ever. I am still a little burned the Conservatives voted down the contempt of Parliament charges against the packers before the last election. Sure, it was a token gesture, but a needed gesture.

We are facing a second federal election without the BSE crisis being dealt with. I am wondering if Canadian producers are going to have to wait through three elections before seeing the federal government genuinely committing to increased packing capacity.

[grassfarmer]

Why condemn Stronach's move though? Whether it gains votes for the Conservatives doesn't really matter to me but beef producers need all the help we can get. Unlike the Manitoba group's proposal this one won't cost us anything either. Let them have a go at it - can't do any harm can it?

[farmers_son]

I tend to think it does do harm. Why?

Because we need real solutions, not pretend solutions. It has been nearly 2 years for goodness sakes. The time has passed for feel good solutions and certainly the time has come and gone for the U.S. to open the border to live cattle which is what these actions are all about. I have said it before and I say it again, the Americans will open the border to live cattle when they are good and ready, not before. No matter who goes on their hands and knees before Judge Bullock. Going into the U.S. and pleading for mercy before their court system is a gutless move at this point in the game with at best a low percentage of probable success.

There is only one made in Canada solution and that is increase packing capacity in this country. And maybe people are tired of hearing me say it but we need competition, made in Canada competition and that will only come from the producers themselves owning their own packing plants so they can actually sell beef, not live cattle.

So yup, this kind of BS politicing at the expense of this country's cattle producers does do harm because it avoids taking real solutions that would really benefit producers.

[Cattleman]

I absolutely agree farmers_son, it is completely a political move, that is realistically going to accomplish nothing. Just another waste of taxpayers money. Just put these wasted monies in a plant and get the show on the road!!!

[grassfarmer]

farmers_son, I agree with your solutions as I think many producers do but what can we do to achieve them?
Thus far we have been unable to convince cattle organisations, Provincial, Federal Governments to get working on our solutions. We have also failed as an industry to get our own plants up and running through lack of committment and funding. I know what I want to see happening but have run out of ideas how to convince "decision makers" to decide anything.
Saying what we want to see happening over and over again is obviously not working. This probably will not help either but it is something a politician is willing to do so let them at it.

If it is the Conservatives that are going to fight this campaign won't they be paying for it? I don't see how the official opposition can ask for taxpayer money to wage a battle independant and contrary to the Government line. Still they might follow the Liberal lead and just take it anyway - think of an excuse if they get caught.

[kpb]

farmers_son, The reality is that we are not going to get producer-owned packing plants in Canada, we are not going to get government support from any quarter and even our producer groups are not going to fiscally support the idea of producer-owned plants.

I wish it wasn't so but if wishes were horses...Last fall I posted that new packing plants would not make it in this country because there is no outside money (banks, investors, etc) going to put money into a plant because it is seen as too risky for too little return, especially with the border maybe opening and therefore bringing in more competition. You can see that this remains the case--if there was financial merit to domestic packing plants you can bet that outside money would be found.

As for producers they either don't have the money or don't have the inclination either to take a risk on a plant. There are dozens of proposals out there--there might be three that get off the ground and, remember we are two years into this crisis--are we further ahead? I don't think so.

The reality is that if the border opens this year, all will be forgotten and the status quo will prevail. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that within five years from today there will be even less domestic packing capacity than now. With Cargill and Tyson upping capacity and buying domestic producers, I would think their share of the domestic market has actually increased over the past two years. And why not with the money they are making?

It is not my nature to be doom and gloom but I see no hope for increased domestic packing. Our only hope for increased bids on our cattle is to get the border open and get some U.S. buyers. It's pathetic, I know, and I wish it weren't so but I like to deal with what is, not with what I hope for.


kpb

[farmers_son]

Kpb: While I share your frustration, I do not agree with your view of the future.

Why producer packing plants? It’s not to get our animals slaughtered. We do not have to build a plant to have that happen. Most likely the border will open to live animals before a plant could be built anyway.

Producers need to own their own packing plants so they get paid fairly for the product they sell, which is not happening now. Canadian producers need their own packing plants so we are not so completely dependent upon the U.S. which has clearly shown what it really thinks of an integrated North American market for beef.

I would disagree that Canada will have less domestic packing capacity in five years than today. I think our industry is at a crossroads and that there is no going back to May 19, 2003. We will have increased packing capacity, for me the question is who will own it. At the present there are government policies in place that favour the big packers to the detriment of the cattle producer who wishes to integrate upwards closer to the consumer. If those policies can be addressed, for example by changing the regulations preventing provincially inspected meat to be sold across borders, or by direct financial assistance for producers so there is a level playing field with the big packers who have benefited from a government setup monopoly for years, than there is real hope for producers to actually sell beef and get paid beef price, something they are barred from doing now (at least on a cost effective scale).

Change is inevitable even though inertia is preventing the change from happening as quick as many of us would like. But the change will still happen. Are we any farther ahead than we were two years ago? Well, we are a whole lot smarter. I think producers have learned a lot about their beef industry, the rose colored glasses are gone. If producers give up trying then maybe the lessons learned will have been for nothing but change can happen and has happened before. I do not think the change will be gradual, it will be sudden and it will be dramatic. My view of the future in ten years sees a completely different beef industry in which the producers play a much more involved role linking the producer to the consumer. Notice I did not mention Cargill or Tyson in my vision of the future. Believe it or not, they might not be there.

[grassfarmer]

I like your ideas and vision of the future farmers_son but I fear the reality will be more like kpb predicts. I like the idea of producers controlling the processing sector rather than building the new plants themselves. Isn't that what Canada Farm Direct is trying to do? buy out a large slaughter player (presumably XL) and redirect their marketing to Asia rather than the US.
Problem with this kind of scenario is you can only buy these things if they are for sale. I doubt Cargill or Tyson will voluntarily sell their plants to Canadian producers. Kind of like the border only opening once the US decides it is to their advantage to do so it is clear these corporations will only give up or move out when their is no more money to be made easily.
Ostercamp uses the clever analogy of the American fur trappers who moved on once they had depleted the natural resource.
Let's hope they don't move on because they have ruined every beef producer in Canada to the extent that there are not worthwhile numbers of cattle being produced here to justify their operations.

[cakadu]

I suppose when you look at it, every vote for the Tories will count, so they will try to get the vote in the west, but what they really want and NEED is the vote on Bay Street. Up until now, they have not had the wherewithall to get those votes and if they couldn't do it last time, will there be any luck this time? Call them by whatever name you want, but they are still reform - which Ontarians have pretty much rejected in how many elections now?

Let's face it - the rural vote is less than 3% and getting closer to 1% every day.

kpb - do you think that there would be better luck in getting domestic capacity up and running if there were already markets waiting in the wings? Are all these other countries waiting to see what the US does before they make a move?

One of the things I wonder about is whether or not there would be a move towards not using hormones in order to get beef into the EU. What sorts of things are being done in that regard and have all the EU countries banned our beef now for this presumed BSE crisis?

I know that many people believe that the hormone issue is just a way to keep our beef out, but what would happen if we did what the customer wanted and didn't use hormones? When you think about it, it would move closer to what some have been calling for in terms of a managed supply of cattle because there would be operations that couldn't make even a razor thin margin without the use of artifical hormones.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we are not looking at the same world that we were almost 2 years ago now and I would like to think that we have learned a great deal. I just wonder what it will take to make the paradigm shift to doing things differently as knowing and doing are two totally different animals.

[cakadu]

Linda, I think that the Conservatives have a slim chance of a majority government this time around, if only because some of the NDP supporters and likely a number of Liberal supporters across the country are both sick and tired of the corruption and also realize that the NDP will not form a government so votes may as well go elsewhere.
It is unfortunate that there will likely be very few votes from Quebec for any party other than the Bloc.
Anne McLellan was holding court yesterday saying how she supports Paul Martin and she intends on running again ( no surprise there ), and her opponent from last year has already said he fully intends on running whenever an election is called.

The worst crime in all this mess is the cost to the taxpayer, of the scandal and also another election.