Tories Want Into Gong Show

[greybeard]

I agree with farmers-son that our industry is at a crossroads and we can’t go back to the way things were, as it’s probably not there any more.
In the past we were the same as the R-CALFer’s and looked at the auction barn, feedlot operator, or packer as the source of money in the cattle business. I think we have to remember that the only source of money is the consumer (and the Government). Since BSE there has actually been a net gain in money going into beef as retail is at an all time high and the government has supplemented it with billions more. Where did this money go? Not to the producer due to an imbalance in packing capacity. Yet prices for beef are so good it attracts offshore product when our cows are near worthless.
I have also come to realize that a token investment in packing capacity will not save our operations. If you sell 10 head at a better price, that won’t significantly affect your bottom line. We need to make an investment proportional to our herd size. Where does the money come from? Catch 22 is it must come from borrowing against your equity. That is gone because we haven’t been getting our share.

[cakadu]

How many of you think there will be any kind of turnout for this election? Will it be higher than in years past because of the growing disillusionment with the Liberals?

It seems that each government has its own scandals to deal with and the more shrewd of the politicians know how to get someone else to bear the brunt of what they did. Look at Mulroney - he got out of the way and Kim Campbell was so blinded by her ambition that she couldn't see anything but the PM initials behind her name. I suppose to her credit she did get those initials, even if for a brief time.

Now we have Chretien's legacy being unfolded her and Martin's desire to be PM blinded him to certain realities as well and he will pay the price for what Chretien did. So much for having someone waiting in the wings to take over your position.

Grassfarmer, I do agree that agriculture needs all the help that it can get, but posturing for votes is not going to help us in the slightest. The whole BSE matter has gone from science to politics to the legal system and that could take forever to clear, given the legal posturing that can take place.

Now Belinda may very well be a savvy businesswoman, but I'm sure that she has absolutely no idea about agriculture and what we need in order to get us out of this mess i.e. new leadership at the helm of the groups that presumably have government's ear, the ability to capture more of the value of the goods that we produce, etc.

Who knows, maybe some of the big farm groups throwing their hats into the ring against the legal action may have some positive outcomes.

[cakadu]

Linda, the news this morning indicates that Martin is attempting to arrange a meeting with Jack Layton, so you can bet he will promise whatever the NDP wants to ensure they don't vote in favor of any non confidence motion.
As far as voter turn out goes, it will depend on the time of year. Summer elections aren't a good thing because folks are away on vacation etc.

As usual the west will likely have a fairly good turnout and certainly will not support the Liberals but who knows what Ontario will do .

This country cannot continue to be governed the way we are, it is hurting Canadians and certainly is not helping us internationally.

[cowman]

Well I guess we know that if Stephen Harper walked on water...Linda sure as hell won't be voting for him!...because he is reform!
Too bad, as he is the only viable choice right now? But wait we can vote for the NDP, right? Yea right...liberal lite!
I wonder what was so bad about reform? Didn't they advocate social conservative values? fiscal retraint? smaller government? Honestly and integrity in government? Were these horribly wrong?
Is a bunch of out and out theives a better choice?....apparently.

[cakadu]

Now cowman you're putting words in my mouth. I haven't agreed with reform since day one and certainly would never vote for our MP. The party may have had a chance but they backtracked on some of the things that they said that they would never do i.e. vote for pensions and a raise in the pension. It was okay while they were in their first term, but after some of them were assured of the magic 6 years, then voila, we are voting to have pensions and raises to those pensions. It was also okay to say those things while they didn't have a prayer of getting in and they were building their party. Now look at the continued infighting amongst the conservatives/reform/alliance.

We know that you just trade one den of thieves for another - it is all a matter of degree.

We probably sit on different sides of the fence because you are for separation and I am not - we've been through it many times in other threads. It doesn't make either one of us wrong or right - we are exercising our rights to vote for whom we believe is the best candidate and so far the reform have not been the best candidates - from my viewpoint. I don't think we should knock one another's viewpoints and feelings regarding elected officials and political parties because it is a personal choice and what is right for you, might not be right for me and vice versa. At least I get out and vote with what I can live with.

Maybe this will finally be the rhino party's year!!! ;-)

[cowman]

Well Linda I will admit I voted for the Green Party last time! I figured they were a nice safe protest party.
And I suspect that a spring election would not put any party in a viable position to effectively govern the country. I do believe however that this is a good thing?
Consider this scenario...solid Conservative vote in western Canada, wishy washy Ontario support, a BLOC sweep in Quebec, and of course solid Liberal support in the Maritimes...and probably a hostile PQ provincial government within a year? I would say that scenario could be a western seperatists dream? So that is my rationale for voting Conservative!
However, I fail to see how anyone can support proven thieves...not politicians who weaselled out of a promise, but blatant thieves? And furthermore Martin can't shirk the fact he was the finance minister while all this was going on? He was either totally incompetent or he was as dirty as the rest? I suspect the latter.

[15444]

Cowman, although I can see how Stephen Harper might be the right fit for Alberta, he sure has scared the crap out of Ontario and the rest of his party. Just look at Manning and Harris making the announcement for private healthcare for the Fraser Institute a couple of weeks ago. If you had read the comments in the Globe and Mail or the National Post on that topic, you would realize that position alone will keep a bunch of people from voting conservative. Then you have the whole Alliance/Conservative curfuffle that took place during the leadership convention to reaffirm Harper's leadership...remember McKay storming out in a huff? There is separation within the party and the Conservatives need a former PC member as leader if they are going to win Ontario. It would not surprise me if down the road, we see a movement by old PC members to split off from the party again...just depends on what kind of support the Conservatives get in the next few elections as I doubt the next one will form a majority.

To even think about who will win is a mystery itself. It all depends which sect of society goes out and votes. If the under 30's get out, we might see a larger proportion of the vote going to the NDP than the polls suggest. If the older groups get out, than maybe Conservatives will hold true to the polls. But who is going to vote? Typically the younger generations have poor turn outs, but how disillusioned are the older voters with Canada? You know that Quebec will vote to change their country both provincially and federally (yes, I said country), but will Canada?

Even with radicals in the Conservative party like Randy White, I still voted for Conservatives last time as I figured they might turn the country around fiscally, and avoid the major social debates in the meantime. Seeing as how it looks like the Conservatives are finally ready to admit to being a party for the ultra conservatives in this country, I'll take my chances with the NDP next time around.

[cowman]

Well I shudder to think of an NDP government but you are probably right in your assessment that it is unlikely the Conservatives will ever really get the Ontario vote. Perhaps they might be able to squeak out a minority government, but I suspect that too would be a disaster?
The Conservative party is definitely a watered down version of the old Reform party! Obviously the Reform message never sold in Ontario and it looks like the watered down version doesn't sell either? And yet the people of Alberta bought into Reform in a big way! Does this suggest to you that we have a completely different mindset?
If the people of Canada continue to hold their noses and vote in outright thieves, then when is it time for the west to realize they can't win in this country? This country is polarized in its thinking and attitudes.
Why is it that private medicare is flourishing in Quebec and the federal government says nothing? But if Klein even mentions maybe doing something different the feds are all over him? I believe Quebec is a "country" and I believe the day is fast coming when all their aspirations are going to come true! Hopefully the same will happen for the west in the future...and hopefully we can all get along?