How long are your exposure dates?

[15444]

Here is a question to get our minds out of the border gutter. What length of time are you allowing for your breeding/calving time? (ie 30/45/60/90 days...the whole year?)

I am aiming for a 30-45 day breeding season, cut down from 60-70. Starting at calving April 1st and ending in mid-May and then starting calving again at mid-August and ending October 1st.

Also, I am pushing to do this to get the weight range at weaning time down to about 200 lbs. Our weight range on the spring calves, come late September of every year has been these:

1996 - 250 lbs.
1997 - 365
1999 - 305
2000 - 405
2001 - 370
2002 - 395

Roughly, what is the weight range between your top and poorest calves?

[grassfarmer]

Interesting topic - I've always liked a tight calving period and calving later in the spring certainly helps that. We are on day 12 of calving and 43% of the cows exposed last summer have calved. We run the bulls for 42 days starting on July 5th and then let them out again to pick up any opens for July/August calvers (this is a post BSE policy only - normally they would be gone)

Looking up the calf weights from last year shocked me - a 430lb spread between top and bottom (810lb and 380lb respectively) but when I knock out these too individuals the next were 730lbs and 490lbs giving a more respectible 240lb spread.

[grassfarmer]

I forgot to say the bulls only run out for 21 days the second time.

[15444]

We have run a similar 'post-BSE' breeding stance as well, and explains why we calved a lot of fall calving cows last year. As far as the purebred herd goes, I am quiting that stance this year as I am starting to realize that some cows just aren't cutting it for fertility and are jumping from one season to the next. I'll see if the get this time around, but I won't let them fall to August calving again.

Similarly, we have the odd 1 or 2 that make up the extremes in weights, but I think a single high weight calf is just as bad as a single low weight calf...the bucks are in the ones that sell as groups of 4 and up.

[whiteface]

Have to agree with you totally on that one, Aaron! When selling calves whether it be purebred or commercial, a single or even small group of extremes either way in the calves scare the hell out of buyers and they definatly pay accordingly. The best prices are always for a good uniform set of calves. The bull buyers will pay high for consistancy in a sire group or a group of uniform half-brothers and the auction mart buyers are vicious in picking out inconsistancies in a pen. When the inconsistants are run through as singles you get docked big time because there is no "group" to put them in. I applaud any breeder, purebred or commercial with a good set of even-weight, colored, uniform calves to sell. Have a good day all!

[cswilson]

A few minutes in the sorting alley at home can do alot to even up your calves-it's kind of poor marketing IMO to load everything to town and let the mart boys carve them up. I sort them into groups of 30 or so and get the mart guys to come out-if they have an out they tell me and I sort it off-the rest go to town and sell in a bigger group. Don Campbell has a very interesting article in Cattlemen's about breeding period length-it's interesting by the time we sell our finished cattle you can't tell which ones were born first 21 days or last. There's a wido lady up here runs a fair size bunch of cows -120 I think-she leaves her ONE bull out all the time-every couple months she brings 20 or so calves to town that sell in a package be interesting to see her cost of production-she's managing price risk by being in the market year round-not just one day. Over the years it looks like not many cows winter calve so I imagine she isn't feeding alot of expensive supplement to calve in the snow. Just shows there are alot of ways to skin a cat.

[cowman]

Got to agree with cswilson on this one. The important thing isn't when the calf is born...but when he is sold.
Yep, the buyers will definitely rip you of on one or two little "off calves". That is the beauty of the presort sale?
I think people who get all bent out of shape over not having a uniform calf crop have this insane belief that the buyers really give a rip about you or your calves! The fact is the "reputation herd" really isn't the herd at all....it is you! Get to know your buyers.

[kato]

Total agreement here. It's the sort at home that makes you the money. We try and take calves in that won't be split.

We try and 'mix it up' as much as we can when it comes to marketing our calves. Spread it out over some time, and don't rely on one day's market. Over the years we've learned to be very flexible in this. Don't always do the same thing just because that's 'what you do'.

[grassfarmer]

Why can't you do both Cowman? - have a very uniform set of calves which is definitely assisted by a tight calving period and market them very well? That's what I try to do anyway.

I disagree with you cswilson on the year round calving deal - maybe someone can make it work well but in the majority of cases I've seen it is a way to disguise inefficiencies. The kind of producer that does it tends not to keep records, know their cost of production or have any set goals. Feeding cows well enough to accomodate April calvers will be overfeeding the ones that are June-August calvers. It could work if done well but in most cases it isn't -it's a mess where the cattle make the ranch policy decisions. When the April calver is bred back and rearing a big calf there tends to be not sufficient grass for the August calver to get bred back in the Fall if they all run together. Without clear breeding periods it is too easy for the average cow to turn a calf in every 14 months instead of every 12 months.

As for sorting calves - you must have brighter auction staff than we have. I've sorted pens of 8-12 head each of Char, Simm and Luing steers at the auction only to have them appear in the ring as a pen of 30. I know my cattle look uniform enough across the breeds and weigh the same on sale day but the feedlot will be getting Charolais that will grow at 4lbs a day and Luings that will perform similar to an old fashioned (real) Red Angus.

[cswilson]

Well she might not be efficient but I'd bet a dollar she's debt free and pays income tax-just was pointing out there are lots of ways to do things-a tight calving season is great as long as it doesn't come at too great a cost. I like to try more with less than to try and do more with more. If you can run cows a little tough and have 90 percent born in two cycles it doesn't make a much sense to spend a bunch of money to try and get a few more cows bred early.There's alot of cash spent just to have bragging rights in the playground.

[grassfarmer]

Running cows tough and getting 90% of the cows calved in two cycles is no mean feat. How many of these winter calving guys get 90% calved in 3 months? - damn few in my experience and that goes for purebred breeders too.

[cowman]

Cswilson said it very well...there is no right way or wrong way...just whatever works for you? I remember telling my old Dad that if he bred his cows Char he could make a lot more money. His reply" Where did you ever get the idea I give a damn about more money?"! Shocked me, but then I was looking at it from a different perspective?
Being efficient means different things to different people? At the end of the day everyone has to decide what works best for them?