Welcome to the USA

[WoolyBear]

Actually emrald1 if we could just do a surgical removal of the tumor in Ottawa, and most of Quebec, I think that the whole country as a whole is the REAL thing.

Maybe if we were to move the capital of Canada to somewhere like Dryden, or Kenora, it would be far enough from Quebec and the boys on Bay Street that things should run a little more smoothly! Its too easy for the Sponsorship crowd to duck back across the border after they've had lunch with the Boyz on Parliment Hill.

MAYBE we just need to get rid of the Liberal party as a whole, and that would be a good start!

[kato]

The way things have been going lately, that may not be as unlikely as we may think......

[kpb]

If you heard the calls into cross-country checkup today you'd know that there is no way that the Liberals are ever going to be booted out of office. Quite simply these guys are thieves and should be punted but it seems there are a lot of people in this country that don't mind having their pockets picked and will, in fact, support the thieves any chance they get. So if this latest scandal doesn't make people vote against them, what would? It is sickening.

Cowman, I say that we should separate and get out of a national union that is not working. But I don't think we need to join another dysfunctional country. How about Alberta going on its own--I'm pretty sure we could be a properous country on our own and with no one else's help. The more I see the way we are treated in this country which is to say plundered and ignored and despised than I say to hell with Ottawa.

I think our time for nationhood in Alberta is coming and I think you'll see a vote for separation in this province in your lifetime. Every day that goes by makes more and more Albertans realize there is no future for us in Canada. I, for one, can't wait for the Republic of Alberta to become a reality.


kpb

[farmers_son]

Interesting discussion on why we should not be annexed into the U.S. What makes you think we are not already there? Since CUSTA was signed, later NAFTA the only thing separating us is our self image. There is free movement of most goods and services across the borders except people as each country still requires a green card or some sort of visa to work in their respective nation. There are more restrictions to trade between provinces in this country than there is between the U.S. and Canada. I think if we knew what percentage of Canadian economy was owned by the U.S. we would be astounded. For all intents and purposes, North America is one.

I am amused by the discussion on east versus west, north versus south and how the best people just happen to live where we happen to live. What a coincidence!

In fact Canada and the U.S. are both young countries that have had lots of immigration from all over the world. Canadians take quite a bit of pride in being different (read better) than those damn Yankees while the Yankees take quite a bit of pride in being the biggest and best nation in the world. Now someone is likely overestimating themselves there. In fact China is the worlds biggest consumer market and in terms of land mass and population is bigger than the U.S. For that matter, Canada is bigger than the U.S. The world’s biggest democracy is India, not the U.S.

I have a map of the world tacked up on my wall. It is a satellite image of the world as it seen from a few miles up and believe it or not you cannot see any borders from that vantage point. The reality is the borders do not exist except in our psyche.

So what purpose do borders serve especially when you consider borders to trade are largely gone in North America. Borders make people easy to rule. People are easier to rule if they have an enemy or adversary, someone beyond “their” borders. Borders provide a sense of identity. Borders provide a means of increasing wealth to a group of people without needing to distribute that wealth to a larger group, i.e. Heritage Trust Fund or whatever it is called now within Canada or the wealthy United States compared to the poorer Mexico and certainly Central America.

But if we are going to have borders I would point out when GLTUSA says Albertans should join the USA I would instead ask him why doesn’t the USA join Alberta. After all we have the oil and as GLTUSA has pointed out more than once the USA needs it. As long as you leave Montana out of the deal.

[farmers_son]

Good LORD !! The US joining AB !!! I doubt if the average American has a clue where Alberta is with the exception of possibly Calgary !!! They would likely think that we all live in igloos so why would they want to join us ????? And why would we want them to.
I think that depending on what governments are elected in Ottawa and AB in the future there will likely be more noise about our own independence but I doubt if it will ever come to pass.

[grassfarmer]

I'm not in favour of this independance for Alberta or any other seperatist moves. It's seems the easy option rather than sorting out the problems within the current framework.
I've only been here a little over 4 years now but I think you have a great country, of which Alberta and the Prairies are my favourite part. Saying that the country "isn't working" with relation to Alberta is not the reality I see. I see a fantastically wealthy province with low unemployment, a booming economy, few over restrictive laws and regulations and relatively low crime. There are gliches in the picture of course as there always are - primary ag producers are in dire straits but that is the case in many parts of the world.
One thing I note is that the people who back seperation generally are people who do not have a high opinion of Government and the amount of money they squander. While I tend to fall into that category myself I want to point out that a seperate entity of Alberta would require more politicians and money wasters not less.
We have just gone through something similar in the UK with it's 4 component countries - Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland all getting a regional or devolved parliament to allow more relevant Government and less control from London.
Reality is in this day and ago you get the regional parliaments as well as the national one. Regional ones deal with certain smaller issues but a national government is still needed to formulate overall policy and manage defence, the economy, EU negotiations etc etc.
So rather than having independance from London and England like a few Scottish sepratist fools hoped for they now have a Scottish parliament in Edinburgh as well as a National parliament in London. Two sets of money wasters in two ivory towers who inevitably spend much of their time squabbling with each other. Fair enough you already have provincial governments here but if there mandate is expanded their cost and workforce will increase while there will be no-one wanting to retire from Ottawa.

[kpb]

Well grassfarmer I've been here for a long time and I can tell you that Alberta has been ripped off by the central Canadian powerbase since before it was a province. The great points about living in Alberta that you cite are exactly the reasons why this province would make a great country--the fact is that the rest of Canada needs us a heck of a lot more than we need them. We contribute more than our fair share to equalization payments and have for a long time. We have a high standard of living here, an educated workforce and a friendly, generous people. I'm just sick and tired of central Canada taking advantage of our good nature. I don't see too many good things that confederation has afforded us and I see a whole lot of money being sucked away from us by the corrupt politicians of central Canada. Alberta could do just fine by itself and one day the people of this province will reach the point of frustration that makes a referendum possible. I don't think, from talking to the people that I know, that that point is far off.


kpb

[kpb]

grassfarmer, many of us can remember hearing from our parents and grandparents about the terrible times during the depression and dust bowl droughts in the west when eastern Canada would not lift a finger to help.
Many of us can remember the disaster in the petroleum industry during the Trudeau years with the National Energy Policy that put our industry on the rails in Alberta.
We have seen billions spent trying to keep Quebec in Canada.....and seen one federal government after the other forget about the west until it was time to call an election, so it isn't much wonder that folks are getting fed up.

[cowman]

KPB: I too believe that an absolute union with the USA is not in our best interest, but I have no problem with a basically "borderless" situation? Of course it would be helpful if we had at least BC on board...one huge trading block from California to Alaska!
The fact is most of our trade/commerce works in a north/south situation and we need to encourage that instead of set up artificial roadblocks?
It is very apparent that our current Alberta government has no intentions of ever standing up for our rights within this country? Our current premier is a joke. One person who I believe might be a "Alberta First" premier is Ted Morton? Apparently the old Tory guard are appalled that he stands a chance of becoming premier after Klein quits?
Can Alberta work within a framework of confederation? Personally I doubt it but I do know the bootlickers we have now are not the answer! Ted Morton would move us in a direction that starts to claim back some of our rights and freedoms!
I am often dismayed by the way the people of Saskatchewan and Manitoba react. It seems they keep electing these leftist governments and supporting all kinds of goofy ideas! They can't seem to get it through their heads that hey this isn't working! It almost seems like the ones who do get it, usually end up in Alberta where they embrace the Alberta attitude and do very well for themselves!
Of course the bumblers and toads we have had running Alberta for the last 35 years have not been helpful, but even they heven't been able to screw up the oil and gas boom!

[cowman]

cowman, the leadership of the AB PC Party is going to be a very interesting one.
Jim Dinning, Ed Stelmach and Ted Morton. You and I both know that Ted Morton won't stand a chance because there are already two very opposite camps forming with Dinning and Stelmach.
I like Ed Stelmach, he has been an excellent cabinet minister in the porfolios he has had, Ed is going to appeal to rural AB., he is a good old farmboy from Lamont and has rural roots and a strong committment to family and community.
Dinning is the boy with the Calgary connections, and is working day and night to increase his profile in rural AB.
I have met Ted Morton and am impressed at his down to earth demeanor and his common sense. The leadership whenever it takes place will be a crapshoot, and hopefully will not divide the province .