Producer - Consumer Communication...???

[Cedar]

rkaiser stated in previous "XL" post:
I'm so frustrated right now, I could puke. My own verticle market is gaining momentum, but I truely want to help the primary producers of this country. What do those of us who truely want to help, do?

Build it....and we will come!!! ;-)

But, seriously, Randy, why do you suppose your verticle market is gaining momentum? Are you in direct contact with your ultimate customer?

Just curious Randy, why are you so interested in helping the primary producers of this country? I mean, if your own business is doing fine....??? I've heard you say this before, and would be really interested in your logic, especially since it's so "backasswards" from so many other people/(especially) corporations. (I have a feeling there's a "spirit of the farmer" message in your answer!)

One thing to consider is advertise, advertise, and advertise some more... Knowledge (especially consumer knowledge) is power! I have often heard that farmers are notorious for doing everything right...but "forgetting" to tell anyone about it!!!! Quite hilarious really, when we consider basic business principles!

I often wonder what our ultimate customer...the beef consumer...thinks of all this bse stuff, as well as other issues related to beef quality, traceability, etc. How can we ever really know unless we talk to them??? ...And they talk to us??? It might be a fairly big step back from where our thinking is right now, however, I see this communication as a necessary step to determining how we should proceed....for example, would consumers be willing to support beef on their store shelves that has been processed at a producer owned plant....ahead of the megacorp's ..um.."stuff"? This sounds like a possibility since apparently a survey recently done shows that people trust farmers a lot more than people in many other occupations! That's a MAJOR advertising angle! (one, by the way, that some retail chains are capitalizing on, with no legitimacy!) I realize most consumers have no idea that when they "support" beef farmers by buying more beef, they are just lining the big corp's pockets...at our expense. Perhaps that's one thing that would come out if we had better communication!

Ok, sorry, guys, enough babbling... (though I could go on and on...as I'm sure you know). I'll "cut to the chase": we need a website where all this can happen.... then...and only then, will we find out if our plans for producer plants, etc. are viable. Obviously, if consumers were interested, any beef coming out of such plants would have to be identified as such on the label. How many of you would participate in such a site? How many of you would be interested in seeing what consumers have to say? We need to find out things like whether or not they would pay a little more, from time to time, in order to support these plants, or is the cost the major determining factor in their purchases??..Have they reduced their beef purchases because of the bse issue?..Would they be more likely to buy a "born, raised, processed, and tested bse free in Canada product than commodity stuff?... Do they think we should test all animals?.. What would they think if they knew how much beef is still being imported from the states (questionable bse status) and other places, while our own producers shrivel and croak? ...etc, etc. A daily or weekly survey would be interesting! So much could be learned..... After all...this is their food supply! ...if they had a voice...that could be passed on to the politicians.....!!??!!???

I wonder, maybe, if it's not too late, if we really hurried and got something up and running, perhaps the CBC could run the url when they air their upcoming article on bse as it relates to sporadic cjd. (Since that sounds like pretty scary stuff, it would be a good time to get this communication rollin'!)

[Cattleman]

Many organizations and communities are holding Centennial celebrations this year and if ABP would get busy doing the promotions they always take credit for, perhaps there could be a support beef rally in every community across Alberta, and hopefully the Saskatchewan beef industry group would get onside as well. Producer based organizations are the ones that need to keep the EAT BEEF momentum going, and perhaps we as producers need to put some heat on our organizations to ensure that they are doing it.

[farmers_son]

The crisis in our industry does not stem from a lack of consumer demand for beef. We cannot advertise our way out of the problem of not enough packing capacity within Canada.

The problem is clear but we continue to dance around the answer. I am amazed to see industry attempt any solution; advertising, legal challenges, international trips and so on. Anything other than initiatives that will see actual packing plant floor space increase in Canada, certainly no solutions that would see producers move closer to the consumer by owning their own packing plants.

There is no question that there is a market for our beef. Finding markets for our beef is not the problem, getting it killed as well as getting paid a fair price when it is killed is a problem. If our producer organizations were successful in promoting Canadian beef consumption we would have to increase our imports of United States beef and non-NAFTA beef because we do not have enough packing capacity within Canada as it is. And if the Canadian retail price of beef were to rise none of that benefit would make it down the supply chain past the packing plants to producers. That is just how it is.

The problem is not BSE. Clearly the U.S. reluctance to open the border to our live cattle is based on economic/protectionist reasons and not food safety. Until we build packing plant capacity in this country we will remain extremely vulnerable to continued protectionist trade measures by the United States, we will not get paid a fair price for our live cattle and the benefits of any consumer communications will accrue to the packers, not the producers.

[rkaiser]

Emerald, you keep thinking, and I guess hoping that ABP CCA is the route to take to help the producer.

ABP CCA is a group of individuals with specific and self serving agenda's.

Talk to one, and there is no problem out there. Money is being made.
Talk to another, and the only answer is an open border.
Talk to the next and heshe will applaud the takeover of the packing industry by Cargil and Tyson.
I, for one, have given up on ABPCCA.

You are probably right about looking after numero uno Cedar. But I will tell all of you out there that there is room right beside this numero uno for a bunch more numero uno's. If you were to take part in our marketing scheme, I WOULD NOT MAKE MONEY OFF OF YOU!

There is a lot of room in this country for all of us to sell beef to the consumer, and take on Cargil and Tyson, and their opportunistic immoral business practices. Tell the consumer what these pirates are doing. Show them we can produce a better quality product, and leave the profit in the pocket of the rancher, so heshe doesn't need their taxpayer dollar.

I'm for the website Cedar.

Can't see a grassroots movement gaining any ground at the moment. Time for some grassroots capitalism.

I would tend to agee with KPB that most ranchers have given up long before many of us have. They are either waiting for their chance to bail, or have resigned to the fact that ranching will be their sideline, might even help out in their tax situation. Losses mean exemptions don't they?

[Cattleman]

Farmer_son said, "There is no question that there is a market for our beef. Finding markets for our beef is not the problem, getting it killed as well as getting paid a fair price when it is killed is a problem."

I agree farmers_son, but I truely believe that Cedars, system of connecting producers to consumers is a critical way to be paid a "fair price" for our product, or else there are always going to be the big middlemen taking more than their share! If this idea flies, it certainly creates a lot more incentive for producers to invest in packing as it will make the marketing even easier, and more secure, as it will probably be domestic consumers.

[Cattleman]

Randy, please don't misunderstand my comments to mean that I am confident that ABP and CCA will help us get out of the hole we are in.
I mentioned ABP in the context of their promotions that are supposed to be happening, and perhaps they could do some promotions in conjunction with AB Centennial celebrations. I know that is not the answer to the capacity issue, but perhaps it is one way to get ABP working for us !!
I am as frustrated as any of you when it comes to what our organizations are doing for the industry.

[kpb]

I think farmers_son is correct when he articulates the problem that we face--it really has nothing to do with promotional campaigns and everything to do with packing capacity. Unfortunatly I see no chance now of this changing in any meaningful way. There are probably going to be a couple of domestic plants that actually make it but how long they will remain independent is anyone's guess.

Just to check the market I sold 40 backgrounded heifers this week--the prices were good and we made some money and we'll sell some more next week. But my point is that the check-off was $120. What do I get for that? I don't want promotions or weird ads or web-sites or producer representatives flying to who knows where. I WOULD like a domestic plant that was owned by producers and would support my dollars actually doing something productive. But you know what, that's just not going to happen because our producer groups do not want it to happen. So my thousands of checkoff dollars just get pissed away.

rkaiser and grassfarmer, I admire your tenacity and determination to make this a better industry. Last fall I said I thought there was little chance of things getting better--now there is no chance. The only real hope for better prices is to have the border open and bring in more buyers since we seem unable to get our collective act together to make things happen up here.

Longer term we are always going to be at the mercy of the big packers and our neighbour to the south. I believe you will see a huge fall-off in the number of producers in this industry in the next five years. Guys like rkaiser who have their own markets will be ok and I hope guys like me with an operation that includes grassers, a cow herd and feeders will be flexible enough to get through. But I think most of the cow-calf guys with less than 300 head will be in trouble.

In the town closest to me there used to be a hardware store that was run by a local family. It went out of business when Wal-Mart came to the north end of Calgary and Canadian Tire expanded. And does anyone remember the old 5 and 10 cents stores? And look at what happened to the hog industry in this country in the last, what, three years? That's the road we're on, and the worst part is our industry groups, which are supposed to represent us, are doing the paving on that road.

By the way, I see Ted Haney is running for the Liberals again whenever the next election is called.


kpb

[Horse]

Has anyone thought about downsizing the cow and subsiquently the calf if the fats were 100 or even 300 lb lighter we would not be in such a hole and we as cowcalf producers would be in a better position, it may mean change in the feeding business but now it is a survive yourself and let the other guy look after themselves mode.
Randy do you focus on smaller carcas beef? I know there are people that want smaller cuts but for now they have to settle for things like a T Bone with tenderloin removed to get a smaller steak.

[grassfarmer]

kpb, thanks for the compliment but I really haven't done much in this beef crisis apart from rant on here and attend a few meetings and rant there too.
Randy, Cam and the rest of that group have given a total different effort to me in terms of time and energy. Jan Slomp of the NFU and our own Pandiana (attempting to beat some sense into ABP through becoming a delegate) have also given countless hours of time and effort. These people have shown leadership when we needed it and truly deserve your praise.

Horse, I know where you are coming from with the weight issue but I don't think it will make a big enough difference to beef supply to be worth upsetting current systems. The packers have a certain size box to fill and that is why they buy the 1300lb fats. Also if we did reduce kill weights to 1000lbs we would need to tinker with cattle genetics (good for Galloway breeders ;o), poor for exotic bull breeders) to get the cattle finished properly at the lower weights.
I don't think the feedlots would like it as they would have less weight to put on the cattle so their costs of haulage, incoming drugs etc would be spread over less days on feed. They would get less for their fats and would want to pay less still for feeder calves. Sorry but I can't see it working.

[rkaiser]

But it will work in what I call the reality based market. Some call our market niche, but when an iron chef can pull off a deal for us that gets us three CP hotels, Banff Springs, Lake Loius, and the Palliser in Calgary; I call it reality.

Grassfarmer is right about the box, and the trucking, and the drugs etc. etc., but in the end it seems to me that we have forgotten about the customer. Consistant sized, but not overly small strip loins are what is doing it for us. We still have room for some cattle with less consistency in our meat shops, but the top end restaurants are demanding a consistant, and somewhat smaller than conventional strip, rib eye, or tenderloin.

I beleive that the way to beat these pirates is by getting more competitive, not less. Competition is good, especially when the competitor is so damn arrogant that they don't have time for the bloody customer.

I always like to say "Chop a strip loin in two and call it a medallion like our ABP funded Beef Information Center suggests; and then stand back and watch how far an iron chef can throw the damn thing."

[grassfarmer]

On beef cuts I read today in connection with the beef cutting class at Olds college that "although niche markets may want smaller steaks the trend overall is pointing toward a demand for larger animals that will provide enormous roasts and T-bones."
That really surprised me as we have heard for years now how all the single parent households and smaller families are leading to demand for smaller cuts.

Our own experience selling grassfed beef has been that many under 40 year old city consumers buy only steaks and have never cooked a roast of any size and don't know how to. Once you demonstrate how easy it is they love the roasts - should this be an area for BIC to look at? Country people by contrast are happy with roasts and also the hamburger. Neither set of customers were all that keen on T-bones when offered the option of NY steaks and tenderloin as an alternative. Maybe 1 in 5 picked the T-bones.

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer, I agree with you regarding the lack of interest in cooking roasts. Time consuming is the reason I hear from many of the younger homemakers. They pick up the precooked roasts from the freezer in Superstore.....and what an expensive way to serve beef !!
In my family the T-Bone steaks are as popular as any of the other cuts....but the ladies do eat much smaller portions than the men. The younger folks like burgers vs steak.

[nerves]

well guys the time of year has alot more to do with what sells in our experience. From june till the end of August we can"t get enough steaks to supply demand does'nt matter what kind. From September on till now, we sell mostly roasts and such, and less steaks. If you watch the grocery stores the price of steaks will start to rise when barbeque season hits, and will drop in the fall. Your roast prices will climb in the fall and winter. It is alot like gasoline, demand will set the price. As far as the size of steaks, if small was popular than a good longhorn or dairy breed would fit the bill. Once these animals get the fat cover to marble well they have alot of trim or waste there is only so many steaks in a animal and the whole animal must sell not just steaks. Which is why I think the trend will be swinging towards more quality meat in the animal not just how big the steaks are.

[nerves]

Just recently picket up a side of beef of an 11 1/2 month old animal. The sides weighed 312 pounds and the steaks are a nice size.

A friend has an on farm meat sales business, and she even gets orders for chuck steak in BBQ season. She had been getting the chuck made into stew and hamburger but has a couple of customers that now will take all the chuck steaks she can supply.

As in everything else, to each his own when it comes to preference in beef cuts.....and who cares as long as people still like to eat BEEF !

[grassfarmer]

Nerves, we are getting off topic here but how many 4lb prime rib roasts would you expect to get off a well fattened mature cow weighing around 1450lbs?
Thank you.