Just wondering?

[grassfarmer]

The fact is grassfarmer that the ag support given by the government is just a pittance, many of our ag producers have just adjusted to a lower standard of living.
No farmer would mind donating some of what they produced to help those in famine torn countries if in fact the food got to where it was needed. I don't really think there are many that go without basic food in Canada, that could not change their situation if they adjusted their lifestyles, but I do want to make it clear that I have a lot of compassion for the working poor in this country that are really trying their best, and having a tough time making ends meet, that would include a lot of our ag producers . The unfortunate ones that are affected mostly by any tough times are the children, and those that can't fend for themselves.

[grassfarmer]

Emrald I guess it depends on individual circumstances and what you would call a pittance. With my 2003 CAIS payment and Calf Set-aside money I've received around $300 per cow since December. I don't consider that a pittance.
Not that I'm happy with the situation - I didn't need that much and I hate Government money being wasted in this way. I really hate the way this system works as it was part of the reason I moved from Europe.
The taxpayer will come to resent the amount of bailout money we receive, yet as producers we can do nothing to stop the value theft from the production chain as the politicians feed at the same trough as the Corporation parasites.
The situation we are in makes me very uneasy.

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer, don't you think you are going to lose that $200 per calf that you received in setaside money when you market them ? Anything with setaside tags right now is being discounted like crazy.
The way I looked at it, a person that sold their calves last fall, including their heifer calves, saved the money on feed and can buy pairs now or could have picked up some decent breds a month ago that were late calving for around what they got for their calves last fall. Not much in the way of additional feed and still been money ahead.
I don't know of anybody that would trade the pre BSE prices of two years ago for all the CAIS, Setaside and every other government program out there.

The last thing I would want is for people that aren't involved in agriculture to think that we are all doing great with government aid programs !

[grassfarmer]

Emrald, I didn't blindly setaside tag calves and hope for the border to open. I tagged some of my very smallest calves last fall and sold them in December - didn't lose a cent on them. Then I tagged my replacement heifers and a couple of bulls I kept - no risk there either. Finally I tagged a handful of fall born calves and a group of grass fatteners that won't be sold / slaughtered before 1st October anyway. Remember on a per head basis they were $200 but only on 40% of your herd so that only actually came to $80 per cow of the $300.

You must have seen some cheap pairs or breds recently to be a better buy than retaining your own heifers last fall. Many of those early sold calves didn't bring $500 and it has been a cheap winter to feed any class of cattle.

"I don't know of anybody that would trade the pre BSE prices of two years ago for all the CAIS, Setaside and every other government program out there.
The last thing I would want is for people that aren't involved in agriculture to think that we are all doing great with government aid programs !"

No one holds these sentiments stronger than me Emrald - remember this is my second time through with BSE. I hate farming Government but I have enough experience of it to give me an advantage over many producers here which keeps my head above water.
Sadly I fear that the route we are on will lead to a consumer backlash at some point, it did in the UK. You maybe won't see it in Red Deer but they don't have a lot of Ag roots in Toronto where it really matters. That is my fear.

[blackjack]

...I think the only reason government make up these programs to pretend they are helping out the ag. industry...meanwhile hiring numerous bureaucrats...that know nothing about agriculture in the first place...and what is their cut of the pie that supposedly the taxpayer thinks goes to the farmer...

[blackjack]

grassfarmer I was basing my price of breds at the same as 750 lb heifers last fall. There were a lot of cheaper bred older ( not OLD ) cows at dispersals over the past couple of months. I agree that it will be the big city taxpayers that really start to make noise about tax dollars helping the ag industry. Even with the programs in place at this time we are not a heavily subsidized industry in Canada.

[cswilson]

Good cattle are still bringing decent money-some pairs in our neck of the woods traded at 1200 just recently-these are with fresh dropped calves at side.

[cowman]

grassfarmer: The corporations are conducting "acceptable business" as defined by our government...which is us? The government makes the laws these guys operate under?
I believe the government has decided that the packers were operating within that system and have done nothing wrong?
We supposedly live in a democracy and the majority obviously thinks the rules are okay or they would turf the present crowd and put someone else in?
The reality of the situation is this is the system we have and about our only option is to live with it? Or we can bang our head against the wall and scream for a change... how is that working?
Lets not forget that our grainfarmers have their own little "commie organization(the CWB)" and look how much good they do? They are supposedly not at the mercy of the big bad corporations but have their bonafide good old government agency looking after their interests! I guess that is why they are all rich and so many farmers are chomping at the bit to get into growing grain?
Yes there are lots of hungry people in the world, but the fact remains that they don't have any money to pay for the food you and I grow? Are we going to donate it? Are we going to lose money to grow something to give away?
You can't run any business that way. If you try soon you will be the one needing some charity.
The NFU has some good ideas. They are a necessary evil to counteract international corporations. However they also pretty well turned everyone off a long time ago with some of their more blatant leftist actions. Like their lobbying to keep the west coast strikes going back in the seventies, while farmers sat on a mountain of grain on the prairies and lost untold millions! I think they showed their true colors that day....RED?

[grassfarmer]

Pleased to see that you still believe that Ag Corporations are honest citizens - and you even think our Government is a fair and honest body when it comes to governing the AG sector. Kind of makes a mockery of your usual anti-Government stance on these threads - still if it helps to prop up a weak argument....