Hard life?

[kpb]

I think running pairs on a high managment system that involves using high cost land, feeding over the winter using feed that can also be high cost and straining the resources of that land to carry the absolute most pairs possible is eventually a doubtful competitive proposition.

I was recently looking at a ranch on the internet in the Cypress Hills of south Saskatchewan where because of the Chinooks and open terrain, the average feeding days in winter is 10 days. I don't know how a feeding program structured in Central or Northern Alberta can hope to compete with that or with pairs produced in the southern hemisphere.

I think central and northern Alberta are more suited to feeding calves, backgrounding and grassing yearlings. That's where you get the bigger bang for the buck anyways and you can use your grainland more effectively and be better rewarded for your management skills.

grassfarmer, I think you read Allan Nation. In one of his books he points out that the most profitable form of ranching is low cost, low management, low input, extensive ranches where the pairs are basically turned loose on a large pasture. In a high managment system ranchers are better off with yearlings so that they get directly rewarded for their management skills in running an intensive pasture well.

Just my thoughts.

kpb

[kpb]

Anyone contemplating drylotting their cattle in AB., should check on the AOPA Legislation because confining any number over 199 requires approval under the legislation.

[cswilson]

There is more to story than feeding days-what is your total land investment per cow etc. A lot of times the winter feeding savings are just bid into the price of the land. It is your cost of production subtracted from your revenue that determmines profitability-what comprises those costs can be very different from one outfit to the next. Allan Nation preaches paradims but one he hasn't quite got figured out is that 'grass is always cheaper'-it is my prefered way of doing things but if it doesn't pencil out-it doesn't pencil out.

[cowman]

I agree, the bottom line is always the best thing to go with.
In a way high cost land is sort of a non issue if that land is paid for? Sure you aren't getting a decent return on $2,000/acre land if you pasture cows, but you probably are building in a decent return on the appreciation? You are in fact, just delaying the day you realize your profit?
The land in certain areas is very expensive...too expensive to buy for agriculture! But most of this land was bought a long time ago and is paid for? It is like money in the bank!
Also this "old land" was in fact probably the best land...where the original settlers came to roost? So even though it cannot pay for itself today it still yields more than some of this cheap land?
Our $1500/acre land has come pretty close to doubling in value in the last ten years and I doubt we'll see that rate decrease in the near future! So even though we get a miserable cash return on that land through agriculture, we have gotten a decent return on actual value of the asset?
Consider this: The guy who buys $6,000/acre land really close to Red Deer Alberta(or Calgary or Edmonton or anywhere in the corrider) can continously lose money farming it for ten years and come out way ahead at the end of the ten years, than all this $500/acre land in the boondocks!

[cowman]

several folks in our community sold land near Airdrie and west of Highway 2 near Olds and bought good sized well set up cattle operations up here....and still had a bunch of money left over !

[grassfarmer]

kpb, Yes I could probably make more money custom grazing yearlings intensively - it's not what I want to do although it offers me the chance to winter in Arizona!
The main reason I don't choose this option is because of my purebred Luing cattle - I came here to expand this breed in North America and I need a cow herd to do it. Although I claim to be a grassfarmer first and cattleman second I do have a soft spot for cows and would not get the same satisfaction out of someone running elses yearlings. A cow herd also lets you "grow" another asset. I've seen the capital appreciation possible in a cow herd when you build it up in size and quality from a given point. Of course to realise this profit you need to sell - but at least if you have the herd you have that extra option. It's all part of building a well rounded Ag portfolio in my books.

I agree cswilson that grass has to pencil in before it is the #1 choice. I reckon the fertiliser doesn't pencil in at the moment beyond providing for the season when cows are actually rearing a calf. I could buy feed cheaper last winter than I could grow extra banked grass using fertiliser. This must say something about the guys growing the feed to sell - they afterall are using fertiliser AND expensive metal to harvest and deliver it to me cheaper than I can grow extra grass. Rather them than me!

[InAHurry]

kpb
Could you take a moment to send me the link to that Cypress Hill's place - I have to question the 10 day winter feeding "sales pitch". I find that very hard to believe, (but I have been known to be wrong before - LOL). BTW, we wouldn't be competition, just curious.
dcdelorme@sasktel.net