Missile Defense

[whiteface]

Sorry, silver, no, I guess I haven't paid attention but as you probably know, I'm not especially hostile and don't believe that shoving back makes good relations...from either side. I do think that our governments could have treated our major trading partners quite a bit better and thus we wouldn't even need to wonder who's turn it is to shove. Please accept my apologies, sliver. Have a good day all!

[farmers_son]

Any discussion about Bush and world politics would only be on topic because of a relationship between Bush's politics and resuming trade in beef.

That said, I would respectfully suggest that Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq without the approval of the United Nations Security Council would be on par with crimes committed by the infamous Nazi leaders who were tried at Nuremburg in 1948, after World War II.

Hitler justified a "preemptive" strike on Poland based on lies about a non-existent Polish Army attack against Germany. Note any similarities between Bush and Iraq?

The American attack on Iraq without United Nations approval is illegal under international law. It is also clear that the inevitable civilian casualties resulting from such an attack would qualify as crimes against humanity.

As well, Bush and the Americans would be guilty under the Geneva Convention as it relates to treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo and Iraq.

Again, this only relates to beef in so far as I believe Bush would not hesitate to play dirty with Canada when it comes to missile defense.

[FarmRanger]

Poland wasn't killing its citizens and burying their bodies in mass graves.
Poland wasn't invading neighboring countries (re:Kuwait)
Poland wasn't ruled by a murdering tyrant, bent on the destruction of Germany.

And as far as not having UN security council sanctions, if the allies would have had to wait for those, we'd all be goosestepping and speaking German right now. If the UN security council was as effective as it should be, there would be a few more Banana republics butchers quaking in their boot right now.
No one can deny that there will be civilian casualty in a war, but the numbers are relatively small (probably smaller than the %stolen by Libs), and may even be less than the numbers Saddam would have murdered during the same time.
I don't like war any more than the next person, but put things in perspective. This antiAmerican rhetoric is not helpful, nor productive.

[FarmRanger]

Also, Hitler wasn't planning on withdrawing replacing the government there with a democracy elected by it's own people.

[silverback]

I am not sure there is a need to apologize as people are hopefully still free to voice their own opinions in this country (just not during election time). I am getting very discouraged that the common sense needed to get our border open has been sacrificed to maintain peoples jobs in Ottawa. Why is it that we have allowed elected people to turn their elected duties into a way of lining their pockets and guaranteed employment?. How is this more acceptable to some than others?

I was always taught that you can get what you want from someone easier with honey than s___. At the moment I want our border open. I think that would cure a lot of problems we have. I also think that only one group of people are willing to be nice to the U.S. for a while to get that going, and it is not Paul Martin, and it is not Jack Layton. If anyone believes that being nasty to the only economic superpower in this world will open our border, please say so now. If the opinion of some is that we can go it alone without the U.S., then why do I not hear the outcry as to why the Liberals are not giving more help to start some packing plants to put the screws to George and their packing industry?? Maybe we can put our old cows on Paul's ships to be processed in our good friends the French or the Germans or the Russians?

[rkaiser]

You almost hate to have an opinion on something like this, as the labels come out instantly. Farmranger calling farmer_son's comments anti American is a little silly when you realise that at least half of the people in America itself do not support the war in Iraq.

I guess I would have to say that Jean Cretan made a foolish move by not supporting the Bush initiative in Iraq. Knowing full well that American presidents, and in particular George W. are vendictive sorts. We would realy have had nothing to offer anyway as our troops were maxed out in Afghanistan.

The missile defense thing is a joke as well as America will do what they want no matter what Canada says on the matter. Go along with the dipship, and stroke his ego a bit. We will make no headway with some kind of soveriegn approach. We live next door to the one and only super power of the world. Challenging Bush will simply delay any economic movement on any front. Economic super power as well as military. America will do what it's President and staff want to do.

However, that does not mean that on a personal basis any one of us, including myself has to agree with what this scum of a President goes about doing. Bush sucks!

[whiteface]

So what is it Randy? Should we act more like the bucking bull or the clown to get the things that so far asking nicely has not done for us? Join the US in their missile defence or join the other countries in sending them? BTW...where you been lately? We missed you around here. Have a good day all!

[jensend]

if you're convinced gwb's heart(?) is in the right place google 'bush nazi' and learn what kind of trash this guy comes from.

[rkaiser]

What do we do Whitey? We go out and excercise our right to vote, and then watch the puppet clowns that we hear all the promises from prior to each and every election.

Then we realise that the best we can be is people who try to reach others with truth. There are a lot of people in America, and in fact all over the world that eat up this "Bush saving the world from bad guys BS." Bush couldn't save his ass from being kicked by a one legged man. This idiot has an agenda, as do a lot of people who sip the cup of power.

Let's get real here for a moment and predict what Iraq will look like in 20 or even 30 years. Will their be less blood flowing in the streets because Bush saved the country. I don't believe for a moment that Hussein was worth a spec of dirt, but why not simply blow the bum away.Don't tell me that the CIA does not have the ability to assassinate whoever they please.
Bullshoot games on a very large scale.

As far as what Canada does. Our politicians are too bloody stupid to even open their mouths. Build some roads, and pay for daycare, that's all they are good for. World policy has nothing to do with the Canadian Government except for maybe the branded peacekeeper role. The rest of it might a s well be used in a way to get what we need economically from the Bush and his gang who will do what they want when they want, and punish those who don't agree along the way.

I am not anti American, and I feel sorry for folks like FarmRanger who have been swept up in Bush's spagetti western. There are tons of informed Americans and tons of informed Canadians. Those informed and aware individuals will prevail in the end, and must be shrewd and calculating in their actions. Biting the hook of one who talks of Bush saving Iraq is not a good hook to bite. This type of person is beyond help and will only draw you into saying things about America that you don't really mean.

I like a getting in belly shot as much as the next guy, but making this an issue of nations is no where to go.

Our best hope as an industry is to expand packing capacity and loose our dependence on the American market.I would personally like to see that expansion as Canadian as possible. Yes I said American, because people like the almighty GWB control America.

Let Rcalf bury itself in it's own hole. Avoid the uninformed. Bypass the ignorant.

My thoughts. Now it's time to pick a booger!

[FarmRanger]

Here we go with the “agenda” thing again. Insults, and insinuations of hidden agendas when actual facts aren’t available. Like I said before, unproductive and not helpful. At least building packing plants might be a helpful solution, but most of what we hear is negative rants. Name calling has helped us so much up to this point…NOT.

And please don’t feel sorry for me, rkaiser. Disagreement with your opinion isn’t necessarily a sign of ignorance, and might actually indicate the contrary. I haven’t been swept up in anybody’s spaghetti western, nor crime drama, nor political farce. I just call ‘em as I see ‘em.

Thanks for listening.