Missile Defense

[rkaiser]

You almost hate to have an opinion on something like this, as the labels come out instantly. Farmranger calling farmer_son's comments anti American is a little silly when you realise that at least half of the people in America itself do not support the war in Iraq.

I guess I would have to say that Jean Cretan made a foolish move by not supporting the Bush initiative in Iraq. Knowing full well that American presidents, and in particular George W. are vendictive sorts. We would realy have had nothing to offer anyway as our troops were maxed out in Afghanistan.

The missile defense thing is a joke as well as America will do what they want no matter what Canada says on the matter. Go along with the dipship, and stroke his ego a bit. We will make no headway with some kind of soveriegn approach. We live next door to the one and only super power of the world. Challenging Bush will simply delay any economic movement on any front. Economic super power as well as military. America will do what it's President and staff want to do.

However, that does not mean that on a personal basis any one of us, including myself has to agree with what this scum of a President goes about doing. Bush sucks!

[whiteface]

So what is it Randy? Should we act more like the bucking bull or the clown to get the things that so far asking nicely has not done for us? Join the US in their missile defence or join the other countries in sending them? BTW...where you been lately? We missed you around here. Have a good day all!

[jensend]

if you're convinced gwb's heart(?) is in the right place google 'bush nazi' and learn what kind of trash this guy comes from.

[rkaiser]

What do we do Whitey? We go out and excercise our right to vote, and then watch the puppet clowns that we hear all the promises from prior to each and every election.

Then we realise that the best we can be is people who try to reach others with truth. There are a lot of people in America, and in fact all over the world that eat up this "Bush saving the world from bad guys BS." Bush couldn't save his ass from being kicked by a one legged man. This idiot has an agenda, as do a lot of people who sip the cup of power.

Let's get real here for a moment and predict what Iraq will look like in 20 or even 30 years. Will their be less blood flowing in the streets because Bush saved the country. I don't believe for a moment that Hussein was worth a spec of dirt, but why not simply blow the bum away.Don't tell me that the CIA does not have the ability to assassinate whoever they please.
Bullshoot games on a very large scale.

As far as what Canada does. Our politicians are too bloody stupid to even open their mouths. Build some roads, and pay for daycare, that's all they are good for. World policy has nothing to do with the Canadian Government except for maybe the branded peacekeeper role. The rest of it might a s well be used in a way to get what we need economically from the Bush and his gang who will do what they want when they want, and punish those who don't agree along the way.

I am not anti American, and I feel sorry for folks like FarmRanger who have been swept up in Bush's spagetti western. There are tons of informed Americans and tons of informed Canadians. Those informed and aware individuals will prevail in the end, and must be shrewd and calculating in their actions. Biting the hook of one who talks of Bush saving Iraq is not a good hook to bite. This type of person is beyond help and will only draw you into saying things about America that you don't really mean.

I like a getting in belly shot as much as the next guy, but making this an issue of nations is no where to go.

Our best hope as an industry is to expand packing capacity and loose our dependence on the American market.I would personally like to see that expansion as Canadian as possible. Yes I said American, because people like the almighty GWB control America.

Let Rcalf bury itself in it's own hole. Avoid the uninformed. Bypass the ignorant.

My thoughts. Now it's time to pick a booger!

[FarmRanger]

Here we go with the “agenda” thing again. Insults, and insinuations of hidden agendas when actual facts aren’t available. Like I said before, unproductive and not helpful. At least building packing plants might be a helpful solution, but most of what we hear is negative rants. Name calling has helped us so much up to this point…NOT.

And please don’t feel sorry for me, rkaiser. Disagreement with your opinion isn’t necessarily a sign of ignorance, and might actually indicate the contrary. I haven’t been swept up in anybody’s spaghetti western, nor crime drama, nor political farce. I just call ‘em as I see ‘em.

Thanks for listening.

[rkaiser]

I'm sorry if you took my comments personally FarmRanger. All I said about you is that you sure seem to believe that Bush is some kind of hero to Iraq.

As far as Bush having a hidden agenda - -it's not hidden, and that is my point. Those who simply read into his actions as heroic are not even opening their eyes.

[FarmRanger]

Don't worry, no offense taken. It's all part any meaningful dialogue. If you hadn't said it, there were probably others who thought it. I just don't want to get pigeonholed as being mindlessly pro-Bush. I just wanted to point out that not everything said about him is true, and not everything he's done is bad. If you've followed any of my comments on the Liberals, you know I'm not their biggest fan lately, but I don't think everyone in the party is a crook, or that they've never done anything good for the country. Reasonable dialogue is allowed to discuss all points though, and if someone brings up a point it should be allowed to be scrutinized by anyone without labeling the person who made it. Labeling tends to shut people down who might have valid points to make, and proper scrutiny is not allowed to take place. And hey, maybe if someone points out something valid that is wrong about my views, I'll change my opinions as well. Our opinions are only as good as the information and the processing of the information we are exposed to.

Looking forward to future discussions, and maybe I'll fire the odd cannonball over your bow too ;-)

[FarmRanger]

Whether or not we like George Bush and what he stands for really doesn't matter much because we aren't the ones who elected him.
We seem to elect our share of dipsticks in our own country, and perhaps we need to be less critial of our neighbours ane pay closer attention to what is happening in our own electoral system.
Having said that, I really think that the war in Iraq will go down in history as a huge mistake. I am glad our troops aren't over there but I do feel that we could have provided some sort of medical help, field hospitals etc.
We do need the US as a trading partner whether we like it or not.
As I have said before this site provides an excellent opportunity for folks to air diverse opinions and views, which we all need to respect whether or not we agree.
We have seen relations with the US deteriorate due to name calling and derogatory remarks by our politiicans, so hopefully we are above conducing ourselves at that level !!!

[rkaiser]

Right on emerald, ya old dipstick!!!

[farmers_son]

Emrald1: You said “I don't agree with all out war in Iraq but I do feel that we could have lent some support, but not troops.”

As many as 31 Canadian troops were in Iraq in association with American and British forces. As well, Canadian citizens joined the U.S. forces directly and were stationed in Iraq.

Canada is involved in Iraq, offering humanitarian aid, policing and in the reconstruction of the country. See: http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/iraq

Canada's position is that crises such as the one in Iraq should be addressed by working through multilateral organizations, such as the United Nations (UN).

[farmers_son]

randy, nice to see you still have a sense of humor......for a few posts there I thought it had left you !!! By the way, any pointers for an old dipstick on showing a steer in a 4-H alumni contest this coming week ? I really want to kick butt since I am up against a neighbour that would love to smoke me in this contest of contests !!!


farmers_son, I am glad you know what Canada's position in Iraq is, I have difficulty understanding what our foreign policy is period.

We are in Afganistan, but not Iraq. Next day we are sending troops to Sudan but they said thanks but no thanks.
We are going to increase spending in the military, but seems as though the subs we just bought are falling apart, catching on fire and a floating disaster when they float or submerge or whatever the heck they are supposed to be doing.

I have said before that we need to have a foreign policy that is known at the UN and to our allies....and not waffle, criticize and ad hoc become involved in peace keeping, sending troops, not sending troops etc. At one time we were recognized around the world for our expertise in Peace Keeping measures. Sadly, when we send troops that are ill fitted for the job they are expected to do it reflects badly on our country even though our troops are second to none in the role they can and would play abroad.

We need to stand for something in this country, and we need leadership to do it.

[farmers_son]

I guess we are more aware of the U.S. foreign policy because we see it on the news, sometimes we are affected directly. Canada's foreign policy, and yes there is one, can be found at:

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/foreign_policy/menu-en.asp


Below I have pasted a link to a speech from the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs which
might shed a little light on our foreign policy as seen south of the border.

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/rm/31402.htm

Just an aside about subs. A family member served on an American submarine support ship in the U.S. Navy for 4 years. When he heard of the disaster with the Canadian sub he knew right away what happened. Apparently that is a fairly normal occurrence on subs, salt water corroding the wiring. They are complicated pieces of machinery and dangerous places to work.

[farmers_son]

Thanks for the info farmers_son. You are correct in saying that we do hear more about the US foreign policy on CNN, and other media.
On the other hand our media seems more inclined to report on negative issues about our government.
In spite of the shortcomings and drawbacks of our political climate, we do live in a wonderful country and should be grateful.

[cowman]

I always am amazed when people conclude that "we live in the best country in the world"! Actually, do we?
The weather sucks. I always have said we should be paid to live in the artic! One thing about Alberta is if you don't like the weather wait ten minutes!
Then we have our government? A government that takes how much of our money? And gives us back how much?
I often wonder just how much of our total income goes to our various governments? Income tax, GST, luxury taxes, sin taxes, various "fees", property taxes, fuel taxes etc.
Why I doubt I could list all the taxes?
I wonder what the final take is?
Everything you buy, you pay the taxes on it? I mean in the end the consumer pays for everyone elses taxes?
What would happen if the government eliminated all taxes except for the GST? The GST would have to rise to the amount that would eliminate all other taxes...what would it have to be? I suspect in that 70% range?

[rkaiser]

Good morning cowman. That's about all I can think of to say in reply to your post.

Emerald, I'm afraid you're gonnan have to find a way into the judges head. I'm suspecting you have one of those darn limo's fitted up for your 4H show, and your neighbor likely has an angus cross. Ususally it's a good thing to tell kids to keep the calf's head up, but with those limo's you simply say keep that head down and hang on. Ya I'm kidding, Limo cattle make great show cattle, and usually end up near or at the top in many steer shows. Good luck you old fart!