Out of the box thinking

[rkaiser]

Look back at your earlier post cowman, and then tell me what the word cult means to you.

Sorry I barked back with the chemical junkie label, you obviously see some of the truth about over doing it.

As far as the money and the facts about sprays; all I can say is, you can live in the fanatsy world you call reality and I'll live in the the fanasty world I call my reality.

Kind of makes me feel good that I am doing all I can to to make the world I affect a bit healthier place to be. Probably shouldn't give a sheet I know, but that's just me.

Yes I use Ivomec once a year, but in defence of my belief in Mark Purdey's theory, Ivomec is not an organophosphate. Also the levels of these organophosphates that were used in the UK which disrupted the chemical balance of the cattle affected were at least 20 fold the levels ever used in Canada when Canadians used to use products like Negavon etc.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, The Grazon toxicology info shows that in animals effects have been reported on the following organs: central nervous system, gastro tract, kidney, liver and muscular effects.Product is slightly toxic to aquatic organisms.

In humans contact may cause eye and skin irritation even a burn or allergic reaction in sensitive people.
Not surprising as it contains 2,4-D at 39.6%.
2,4-D has caused nervous system damage in humans from absorbtion through the skin and comes with a warning not to cut hay for 30 days after application to pasture.
I won't be starting to drink it or make my land or animals drink it any time soon.

[farmers_son]

Your comment on drinking 2,4-D reminded me of a story my father told of someone he knew who did take a tablespoon of 2,4-D every day with no apparent ill effects.

There is a case where one terminal patient with disseminated coccidiomycosis was administered 19 doses of 2,4-D intravenously as a "desparation therapy". The patient received a total of 16.3 grams of 2,4-D acid over a 32 day period.

[grassfarmer]

2,4-D got some really bad press in the UK back in the 70's or early 80's as it was implicated in early pregnancy miscarrages in the wives of foresty workers who were using the stuff. I may be wrong but I think it was banned there for a while if not at present.
Seriously though why would anyone want to drink it?

[grassfarmer]

With the warnings about West Nile, I am wondering what sort of mosquito control you use for people and critters ?


I am allergic to repellent so have to suffer or use straight cider vinegar which seems to work, mind you it does have a very definite aroma to it !

[ALLFARMER]

Grazon is 2-4D picloram. Grazon will leach into ground water so if you use it be sure to stay 30 meters(by law) from water and especially water that could run somewhere else ex. creek to a lake. Grazon breaks down alright with sunlight but can take 5 years if it gets into water. Grazon has a Ag registration so Cowman don't tell to many people your using it on industrial sites. The industrial registration of Grazon is Tordon 101 the only difference is the price, 101 being $15/litre $50/acre. Dow recommends people not consume berries treated with Tordon 101 but when applied at the highest label rate an average person could consume 20 litres of berries per day for the rest of his life without experencing adverse effects. Also it has no adverse effects on animals of insects. Tordon does have a higher toxicity than table salt but is less toxic than Vitamin A, Aspirin, & Nicotine. Tordon 101 is the chemical used the most in Alberta by Municipalitys in roadside spraying programs.

[ALLFARMER]

I had a plus sign between 2-4D & picloram for somereason it disappeared when I submitted.

[cowman]

Allfarmer: I think if you check my post I stated I used the industrial equivalent of Graze On? I called it Graze On because most people recognize the product as that and wouldn't know what Tordon 101 is?
Furthermore there is no difference in price. Tordon 101 sells for $15/liter, the same as Graze On. Where you might have made a mistake is until two years ago you were required to apply 2.8 liters/acre of the industrial spray versus 1.5 of the agricultural spray? Now you can apply 1.5 L/acre of the industrial spray Tordon 101.

[cswilson]

In the last 15 years we have only sprayed 40 acres with Roundup and don't use any commercial fertilizer. We do use Dectomax from time to time. Am I an organic nut or 'health freak' not really I'm just damned cheap. One of the better farmers in the neighborhood was looking at our cows last year and was wondering what supergrass they were grazing-it was a 19 year old stand of grass-told him it was good old quackgrass that we'd wintered on-he didn't believe me till I asked him to remember the last time he saw a cultivator on our land. The iron,chemical treadmill is a hard on to step off of but it's even harder to step back on once you leave. To each his own but we grow as much grass as the neighbors with alot less expense.

[cowman]

cswilson: I have to agree with you "cheap" is good...and actually "lazy" can also solve a lot of problems!
I believe everyone should always consider very carefully how they spend their money and time! The question should always be "Am I getting a decent return on my dollar spent...in both time and money"?
I do not spray chemicals for farmers. First of all they can't afford me! But I will tell you I don't go around spewing chemical fertilizer and spray on my own land either. I have a pretty good idea of the bang I get on the hayland...of course it varies from year to year depending on the weather and price of hay. Now last year it was fairly borderline but in the drought of 2002 it was an awesome investment(when you sell horse hay at $9/sq.bale, $400 N looks pretty cheap)!
On my home place, other than the hay and crop land, haven't used any chem fertilizer or sprays in several years except a bit of roundup around the fruit trees.
And I will also agree quack grass and lots of manure can make for some very lush grass!

[cswilson]

Careful there buddy were almost agreeing on something lol. Good comments.

[farmers_son]

On the topic of quack grass, manure, and out of the box thinking you might be interested in this article at:

http://beef-mag.com/mag/beef_quack_addicts/

I heard this fellow speak in Red Deer. If I recall correctly, he sold one quarter of land to hog producers with an agreement that they spread hog manure on the other three quarters in the section which he owned. He grows quack grass under high fertility and reasonably high rainfall. I believe him when he says it is profitable.

This fellow is a self described high roller.